Re: Cases and Prepositions (amongst others)

Robert Hailman wrote:

> So what I want to know is, is there any particular system by which the
> prepositions are divided up in the case structure, or is it different
> from language to language, even in languages containing the same cases?
This is a good question.  In answer, you first have to consider what a 'case'
is.  It is, in point of fact, a label, one we use to describe certain syntactic
and thematic functions of the morphology a language uses.  It is, of course,
a very useful label, but it is really nothing more than that.  The 'dative' case
of Latin and the 'dative' case of German are so called, aside from issues of
the history of writing grammar, because of a few similarities in the behavior
of the case -- primarily for both of them, indirect object (the thematic 'goal',
'recipient', etc.).   But just because we call them both by the same name by
no means suggests that we should treat them as if they were the same. They
are, in fact, entirely distinct cases. To cite another example, Greek's 'dative'
can be used to show possession, a feature which AFAIK does not exist in
modern German.  Dyirbal's 'dative' case is even more distinct -- it can be used to
denote a demoted direct object in antipassive constructions -- but yet it has
the same name.  So, in short, there is no 'system' that can be used to describe
what uses can be applies to what cases, by virtue of their being labels.

For this reason, it sometimes happens that linguists or grammarians describing
languages will use entirely separate labels when they feel that the use is
sufficiently distinct to warrent this.  Some grammarians of modern English
prefer to use 'subjective' and 'objective' case instead of the more traditional
'nominative' and 'accusative' cases, both because IIRC English 'accusative'
forms like 'him', 'them' etc are originally Old English datives (someone correct
me on this if I'm wrong), but also because their modern English usages encompass
all objects of prepositions,  even coordinated subjects ('John and me are
gonna go play ball'). [Obviously, that's something of a problem with the
nomenclature; but this is neither here nor there].

> Another thing, I've got pronouns that mean things like "for that
> reason", "at some time", "in this manner", and such, and I need to
> decide what case they would go in.
Perhaps you mean correlative adverbs? For the classic handling of
a conlang's correlative system, check out Esperanto.

> This kind of ties into the
> preposition structure, for example a word meaning "at some time" would
> go in the same case as nouns in a prepositional phrase with a
> preposition meaning "at".
Sure.  But you need to be careful of relexing English prepositional
uses into your language's case system.  The rules governing which
preposition is required in English are often highly idiomatic.  There is
no reason, as far as I can see, why most American English speakers
say 'in line', while many New Yorkers say 'on line';  both are bending the
general meaning of the preposition to a very great degree of abstraction.
The same can of course be said about other languages:  most English
speakers would say, I think, 'at this time', while the literal translation
of the German 'zu dieser Zeit' is 'to this time'.  The same goes for
phrases like 'at hand', where German uses IIRC 'zu Hand'.

> Again, is there any system to this throughout
> several languages or do I just have to make my own?
Well, conlanging, except in rare cases like NGL, is ultimately a personal
endeavor.  You can do whatever you like, really.   There's so much variation
in human languages that, usually, most things you can think up on your own
have been done, somewhere (that does not mean, however, it will be common!).
Try to check out from your local university, or buy, a copy of Comrie's
_Language Universal and Linguistic Typology_, if you can handle the prose
style, which is rather thick.  If that's not to your liking, I'm sure there's one
put out in the Cambridge Linguistics library, which you should be able to find
at your local mega-bookstore like Barnes and Noble or Border's.  I know the
Cambridge series has one on case.

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Tom Wier <artabanos@...>
"Cogito ergo sum, sed credo ergo ero."
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