Re: Ellipsis (was: Re: Italian Particles)

Raymond Brown scripsit:

> "Me see she" is not immediately intelligible and, indeed, is potentially
> ambiguous, since the cases of the pronouns are working in a sort of
> contrapuntal way to the word order.  The example IMHO is silly and proves
> nothing one way or the other about ellipsis - it is irrelevant.
Was not making point about ellipsis, but about difference between
intelligibility and grammaticality.  I find it unlikely that any
anglophone would *immediately* hear "Me see she" as "She sees me".
To me, at least, comes across as simple failure to attach
correct case-markings to pronouns, possibly indicative of
pidginized variety (though true pidgin form would be "Me see her").

> On the contrary, such ellipsis is *not uncommon* this side of the pond.
> And most of us on this quaint island of ours are native speakers - indeed,
> those of us who were born & brought up in that part known as England have,
> methinks, a claim to be the most native of all users of _English_.
Granted.

> >Basically Ray talking funny.
>
> No, I was actually being serious.
"Funny" = "odd", not = "humorous".

> "Sorry - must dash now!   Got to pick the kids up from school."
> "Can't tell you, I'm afraid.  Promised the wife to keep it secret". [Not
> all subjects are dropped   :)   ]
These seem decidedly British to me, strengthened by the un-American
use of "must"; for me, "I have to" /ai'h&ft@/ would be obligatory there.

> With some verbs, e.g. "hope" - this is practically the norm in some
> people's speech, e.g.
> "Will you be seeing him this evening?"  "Hope so!"
>
> "Hope you're not going to tell him now!"
The second, but not the first, is possible for me.

> The 2nd person may be omitted in questions, e.g.
> "Want to hear the latest?"
This is transatlantic, but is elliptical for "Do you want to [...]"
so both the subject and the auxiliary are ellipsized.

> "Going to visit your aunt again this weekend?"
Ditto.

> Omission of 3rd person occurs, e.g.
> "What did you say your husband does?" "Teaches in local college."
Impossible for me, reinforced by the un-American omission of "the"
before "local".  It sounds completely telegraphic.

> "Good holiday?"  "Nah - complete washout! Rained every day."
I can get this.

--
John Cowan                                   cowan@ccil.org
       I am a member of a civilization. --David Brin