Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: CHAT: Korean "double consonants" and all that

From:Yoon Ha Lee <yl112@...>
Date:Thursday, November 9, 2000, 13:53
On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Danny Wier wrote:

> Hey, saw your homepage and it's a lot better than mine. (And it's neat > and simple; I can't stand schmaltzy graphics-heavy webpages; I'm an > ultra-slow modem and an even slower early Pentium.) Anyway, I'm gonna try > my hand at learning Korean, and I'm also working on ideas and characters > for a hybrid fantasy/sci-fi RPG. I was also interested in your mention of > anime, religion, being born in Texas...
Oh! You're talking to me. Couldn't tell for a moment. :-p The relative lack of graphics is due to the fact that my sister and I spent years on a slow modem and slow computer, even though I'm now on cable modem. I *hate* slow-loading pages unless they're artists' sites (in which, OC, lots of art is only expected!). I find Korean natural but then I have a *very* dormant L1 advantage. <sheepish look> I was interested in rpg's in Texas but couldn't find any help in where to start; the only one my sister and I had heard of was xD&D, and when we hit the bookstore (gaming stores being something our parents were clueless about) we saw this huge variety of AD&D books and didn't know which one you were supposed to start with. It took serious mail-ordering from South Korea and college to get us up to speed....
> I've read two different descriptions of Korean. One said the "double > consonants" (ssangkiyeok, ssangtikeut, ssangsios etc. -- I like that term > "double strength") were glottalized (ejective I guess) variants of their > "single" counterparts -- but the other source specifially described them > as "tense" and not glottalic! (And the IPA symbols they used included the > consonant plus an apostrophe. Now I AM confused.) I'll have to listen to > the sound files, except I have trouble hearing glottalism.
Yes! I've seen the IPA with the consonant-plus-apostrophe. I spoke out hastily thinking that tense and glottalic must be mutually exclusive terms. <shaking head> Yet that website has 'em down as "glottalic." I've looked for other sources of IPA-for-Korean on the web without much luck. I can tell the difference between the "double strength" and "regular" and "aspirated" stops in Korean, but I don't know what glottalized or tense would sound like in itself. :-( In my experience English-speakers have trouble hearing the difference between "double strength" and "regular."
> So my question is: when does "glottalized" not mean "ejective" (besides > voiced implosive consonants, of course)?
I'd love to know this, too. :-(
> Also, if anybody read my description of Quaelitz (I'm thinking of > changing the name to Q until I come up with a better name , I mentioned > that North Caucasian "geminates" (I probably should've said "long
[snip[ of interesting stuff which unfortunately I don't understand, due to lack of phonetics/phonology background]
> I too used to live in Austin, TX, and there was a woman on public access > who had bible studies in Korean (she mixed some English in there if I > remember right.) She was from Korean Presbyterian Church in Austin. She > was using some sound that resembled the pharyngeal fricatives of Arabic. > Since Korean doesn't have pharyngeal consonants, I'm wondering if either > that's what she meant by "tense" consonant, or am I hearing a different > language...
Koreans often mix in English, especially in the U.S. :-) I don't know how Arabic sounds--well, I do vaguely from the time my friend Abby in HS tried to teach me the alphabet (and caught me writing it left-to-right; I was so ashamed! I'd even read about it being right-to-left) and its sounds, since she was fluent from quite a while spent in Yemen, but I don't know which sounds are in which category. There were some sounds I couldn't quite get my mouth around but I don't remember any of them being equivalent to Korean sounds. OTOH it could've been "tense" at another stop or something. YHL