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Re: Ejectives, was Re: New H/G lang?

From:R. Nierse <rnierse@...>
Date:Wednesday, October 13, 1999, 10:18
> Van: Ed Heil <edheil@...> > Aan: Multiple recipients of list CONLANG <CONLANG@...> > Onderwerp: Ejectives, was Re: New H/G lang? > Datum: dinsdag 12 oktober 1999 23:24 >=20 > Thanks, Rob. That clears things up considerably. Though how anyone > could tell the difference between an ejective and a consonant followed > by a glottal stop is beyond me!
=20 It is hard to hear!
> I don't believe ejective nasals are possible, because the glottis > cannot be used to produce an airstream in the nasal tract, only the > oral cavity.
They do exist: Sechelt (Salishan) q@m'=E9l 'to become high tide' also difficult to pronounce: n@w'os 'face',=20
> And there can be no voice with an ejective, because the > vocal cords are shut completely in order to produce the ejective > pressure. And ejectives must be of fairly short duration, because > there is a fairly small volume of air available above the glottis. > But beyond that, anything's possible: glottalic fricatives and > affricates are certainly common enough.
Thomas wrote:
> So, does this language have a phonemic glottal stop? If so, wouldn't > it be better just to say it's a consonant cluster in which a glottal st=
op
> is the second element in the cluster?
Yes it is a consonant cluster. Nevertheless it is a minimal pair in Yucatec.
> Besides, "glottalic" (as an adjective) > is already most often used in the literature to refer specifically to t=
he
> air stream mechanism, not the place of articulation ("glottal" is used
for
> that).
We must keep "glottalic" for air stream mechanism and discard the term "glottalized" (and use "ejective"). I even don't know of a natlang that h= as [p?] or [t?] instead of [p'] or [t'].=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------- > Ed doesn't know everything, but he hasn't figured that out yet. > Please break it to him gently. edheil@postmark.net > --------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > R. Nierse wrote: > > I used a different definition of glottalic. > > When I said glottalic I meant 'consonant followed by glottal stop'. > > I made this distinction because in Yucatec there is a minimal pair th=
is
> > way. > > Maybe the above definition is better. > > What about ejective nasals and sonorants and sibilants? > > They cannot simply be ejective, because the airstream is still there,
even
> > though they function that way in a phonology. > >