Re: Voiced [h]? Difference between vowel and consonant?

On Sunday, May 1, 2005, at 01:04 , Roger Mills wrote:

> Gregory Gadow wrote:
>> In it's writing system, my conlang, Glörsa, has two tables giving its
>> consonants, one voiced and one unvoiced. In the unvoiced table is the
>> unvoiced glottal fricative, [h]. The table of voiced consonants has a
>> voiced equivalent, which I've been transcribing as w. Phonetically, I've
>> been thinking of this sound as the open-mid back rounded vowel, [V]. But
>> looking at the IPA charts, I found that there is, in fact, a voiced
>> glottal fricative, [h\]. So: what is the difference in pronounciation
>> between [V] and [h\]?
The short, but unhelpful, answer is 'quite a lot'     :)

> It's difficult for English speakers to segment out, even though we often
> produce it in casual speech.
Yep - some varieties of English regularly use [h\] in words like _ahead_,
_behind_ etc.

> Have you checked out the various IPA sites with sound samples??
It's a regular consonant sound in some natlangs; both in Czech and
Afrikaans, for example, the sound spelled _h_ is [h\]. Indeed, those two
languages do not have [h], the voiceless counterpart being [X] in those
langs.

[h\] is more definitely a consonant.

>> And just out of curiosity, what is the technical difference between a
>> vowel and a consonant? Is it just a difference in how syllables are
>> constructed, to where a vowel and consonant can actually have the same
>> sound but get used (and therefore classed) differently?
>
> It has to do with (a) at least some constriction in the vocal tract for
> consonants vs. none for vowels and (b) ability to function as a syllable
> peak. Both of these together serve to distinguish [w/u] and [j/i].  Of
> course, it's quite difficult to define "syllable" in phonetic terms....;-
> (
This has been discussed more than once on Conlang (check the archives).
The main problem IMO is that _phonetic_ and _phonoogical_ definitions do
not coincide  :)

For this reason the American phonetician Kenneth Pike coined the terms
_vocoid_ and _contoid_ for the _phonetic_ constrast, reserving _vowel_ and
_consonant_ for the phonological contrast, this:

VOCOID ('phonetic vowel') - a sound which lacks any closure or narrowing
of the vocal tract sufficient to produce audible friction. (Thus both
'vowels' and approximants are vocoids)

CONTOID ('phonetic consonant') - a sound produced either by complete
closure in the vocal tract or by sufficient narrowing to produce audible
friction.

But in phonological terms:
VOWEL - units which serve as the center or nucleus of a syllable.

CONSONANT - units which function, either singly or in clusters, at the
_margins_ of syllables.

But, as Roger wrote "it's quite difficult to define 'syllable' in phonetic
terms" - but the phonetic terms _vocoid_ and _contoid_ do not depend upon
the definition of syllable. However, it is always not easy to define
syllable in phonological terms. As Crystal write:
"Providing a precise definition of the syllable is not an easy task, there
are several theories in both PHONETICS and PHONOLOGY which have tried to
clarify matters."

Anyway, to return to [h\] - in Czech, Afrikkans and those varieties of
English that have it, the sound occurs only at the onset (margin) of
syllables and is thus a consonant.

Ray
===============================================
http://home.freeuk.com/ray.brown
ray.brown@freeuk.com
===============================================
Anything is possible in the fabulous Celtic twilight,
which is not so much a twilight of the gods
as of the reason."      [JRRT, "English and Welsh" ]

Replies