Re: Previous IPA Question Revisited

Steg Belsky wrote:

> Now i know that the "chinese {x}" sound is represented in IPA by the
> "looped C", and that it's voiced equivalent is the "looped Z".
> And the ones with T and D attached are the affricate versions?
> So what are the symbols for the versions of these sounds that sound more
> like /s/ and /z/ than /S/ and /Z/ ?
I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for (are you asking about
Chinese or just these sounds in general?), so...

Mandarin does this:

Retroflex
---------
zh /ts./ t+s with right tail, unvoiced, unaspirated
ch /ts.'/ " " " " " and aspiration
sh /s./ s with right tail
r  /z./ z with right tail ?? (not sure, lots of phonemic variation here)

Palatal
-------
j /tC/ t+curly-tail c, unvoiced and unaspirated
q /tC'/ " " " " " and aspiration
x /C/ curly-tail c

Alveolar
--------
z /ts/ unvoiced, unaspirated
c /ts'/ aspirated
s /s/

Shanghainese ditches the "r", the retroflexes blend in with the
alveolars, and voicing is added to the mix, so:

Alveolars
---------
z /ts/
c /ts'/         but no /dz/
s /s/
zz /z/

Palatals
--------
j /tC/
q /tC'/
x /C/
jj /dC<vcd>/ d+curly-tail z
yy /C<vcd>/ curly-tail z

Taiwanese has /ts/, /ts'/, /s/, /tC/, /tC'/, /C/ (often used in phonemic
variation with /s/ to my ear). Some southern varieties have /dC<vcd>/ in
certain environments where other varieties have /l/.

Cantonese, for my money, has only /ts/, /ts'/, and /s/. If phonemic
variation comes in at all, it sounds more to my ear like English j, ch,
and sh than the Chinese palatal series.

Kou