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Re: Revised X-Sampa revision (was [several other things])

From:Michael Potter <mhpotter@...>
Date:Thursday, February 26, 2004, 4:45
Trebor Jung wrote:
> Merhaba! > > Michael Potter wrote: > > > "I hope you don't mind a few questions and some (hopefully) constructive > criticism. > > All comments are very welcome! Thanks so much for looking at my system! >
Thanks for listening. I don't post that much, so it's always a pleasure to see a reply. :)
> "I like the use of "~" for nasals, and I understand from your reply to BP > why you chose it. > > I was inspired by this question: If you can mark nasality on vowels with a > tilde, why not do the same with consonants? >
That's pretty much what I thought when I looked at the nasal section.
> "One question: can I, for example, use "s~" for a voiceless alveolar nasal > ([n_0] in CXS)? > > Absolutely! >
I accidentally coined a new word while I was thinking about this question. I wanted to say that your system was either expandable or extensible, but I couldn't decide which, so my mind wanted to type "expensible". :)
> "Very nice, much better than [4], etc. > > Thanks. I feel I should explain this: I use ; for taps/flaps because, in my > opinion, these are just short forms of trills. >
That makes at least as much sense as anything for ";". There's one system that uses it to represent the following symbol upside-down!
> "This is the only problem I can see. You used "F~" for a labiodental nasal, > which would lead one to assume that "F" was a plosive. I know there isn't an > IPA symbol for a labiodental plosive, but this does break the regularity. Is > there a problem with "v" for the voiced labiodental fricative, and perhaps > "F, V" for the plosives? This would change the nasal to "V~" and the > approximant to "V`" though... > > Good idea - I will change "F" to "v". I wonder, is there a labiodental > plosive? I hope so, then the system can be regularized. >
I was going to say that I had another idea today, but I obviously forgot what my original idea was, because it's exactly the same as the new one! I must be losing my mind or something...
> "These are all written like s', sc`, s%, I assume? > > Yes. I hope they're not too ugly :) . >
No uglier than what we already have. :)
> "It's probably just me, but this feels backwards. It must be all those > diagrams of people facing to the right. Yeah, it's just me, I could get used > to it. :) > > I used this because "advanced" means "more than" and "retracted" means "less > than". >
I didn't even think of that! It's those left-facing figures that supposedly show how to pronounce the IPA vowels, like I said (except that I said it completely backwards the first time).
> "I don't understand these. Just wondering, why not "a", since you used "i" > and "e" earlier, and it seems more "open" than "u", like in "say ahh!"? > > Good point. I will change it. >
Be sure to change "U2, U4" to "A2, A4" too, to be consistent with the "i's".
> "Nice." > > I chose this because I want it to be very easy to see which syllable is > stressed - not to have to look elsewhere for this information. > > "All in all, I would have to say that your system (and it is a new system, > not just a revision of X-SAMPA) is very good. It might look unintuitive, but > it has a regularity that the major schemes lack. Did you try to optimize > your system for screen reading software? Because it does seem better than > X-SAMPA. > > Thank you very much! I myself like regularity. I did not optimize it for > screen-reading software - I just wanted to make a regular system; since I > can read letter by letter, I don't have to worry about legibility to my > software (unless it's Unicode and with some really weird characters, but > that's a different story altogether!). > > --Trebor >
I asked about the screen-reader because it does look like your system would be better (i.e. easier to program) in text/speech conversion. I didn't think of letter-by-letter reading, but even then, a consistent multigraph (polygraph?) system would lighten the memory load on both the program and the listener. I'm glad I could help, especially considering the fact that I don't know much at all about phonetics, and what I do know is only because of the group here. -- Michael