Re: Lunatic Survey

Hi Sally,

> THE SURVEY:
>         1)  To what extent is your conlang an "intensely peersonal"
> pursuit--one that you don't often reveal to people other than conlangers?
It's a pursuit I seldom reveal to anyone but conlangers, mainly because few others
would know how to appreciate it. Over the years I've shown the language to many
people, mainly close friends, one of whom actually got into learning the
language, the rest of which have simply regarded my strange hobby with
puzzlement, but not surprise. As a little kid I never told my mother about it,
concerned as she already was about the way I spoke English -- I wouldn't say
certain sounds and replaced words having these sounds with my own, e.g. "three"
--> "free", "am" --> "em", "under" --> "ahnder" or "oonder", etc. -- when she
would mention taking me to "speech therapy" I would give her all the "th"s and
such she wanted, but I wouldn't use them in conversation. To this day I still
have no affection toward the sound of English.
It was only last year I told my mom about Danoven, and she seemed surprised at
how fluently I spoke it, but not at the fact that it was a constructed
language. I usually give the excuse that the language is intended for my AI
work, though that's only partly true...

>         2)  If so, to what extent do you feel that the listserv "Conlang"
> has given you a _raison d'etre_ for
>
>                 a) pursuing your invented language
Naturally, being able to discuss a conlang and receive feedback on it is one reason to
develop it further. I've probably worked more on Danoven since I discovered the
Conlang list than in any other five months previously.

>                 b) making it public?
For me, the charm of publicizing something lies in the response one gets for doing
so. It's become painfully clear that feedback on Web pages just doesn't happen,
so the mailing list remains the best place to "show off" a conlang.

>         3)  How many of you, in mentioning your conlang to an
> acquaintance, received a belittling reply?  Condescension?  Disapproval?
I never get disapproval from anyone but strangers, regardless of what I do. I
tend to have a fixed goal in whatever I'm doing, even if it's just for fun;
people who know me are used to this, and were I to suspend myself head-down
from the ceiling and start making bat noises, I think they would probably stop
and scratch their heads and earnestly try to figure out the reason. Even when
I'm just goofing off people take me seriously; it's rather annoying at times. I
often get an initial odd look when I tell someone I have my own language, but
then I give them back an even odder look and they become curious. Most people
who've never heard of conlanging (which is most people, period) seem rather
awed at the very thought of creating an entire language; it's easier to be
appreciatively awed than to try it yourself, better to be awed than odd,
perhaps.

>         4)  How many of you are:
  X               b) undergraduates?

>         4a) What is your profession, or your desired profession?
Physics student, probably will end up working as an AI theorist, or artist-of-mind, as
I like to say.

>         5)  How many of you have invented a language because
>
>                 a) you are solely interested in language experiments
>                    and linguistics?
I'm not much interested in linguistics as such; I like to search for the best
possible ways to express thought patterns and emotions (which are, of course,
my ways :) and work with them; the historical and derivational aspects of
linguistics interest me little. I'm learning Gothic, but purely for the virtues
of Gothic, not to gain any wider perspective on the evolution of the Germanic
languages.

>                         i) for personal experiments...
 X Testing out new patterns is an ongoing experiment -- the patterns are
"correct" if they closely parallel non-verbal thought and so are effortless to
use; "incorrect" patterns feel artificial, even after you've gotten used to
them. Rigid word order is an example of a very artificial constraint on verbal
thought -- Danoven's default is S,V,(O1),(O2),(O3) but any order is acceptable;
ideas can be "jotted down" as they come to you, and unambiguously reassembled
afterwards by yourself or by the listener, never with any awkwardness or
incorrect syntax.

>         5) How many of you take the time to learn another's conlang?
I learn the grammars, and some "representative" subset of the vocabulary, but
I've never yet learned another conlang thoroughly enough to use it practically.

>         6) How many of you are women?
An'vkdkan.  (Nope, not I)

>         7) Who is lurking period?  [these questions I don't expect
>                 public answers to--if any answers--but I ask it anyway
>                 to see what happens]
I just returned to the Net yesterday after interrupted access -- when I'm
properly connected I post at least two or three times a week.

>         8) Which of you would give me permission to (or object to) my
> mentioning your conlang and webpage (if any) at a convention, in an
> academic article?  I'll protect names if so desired [as though this is
> writing pornography!-- now there's something]
No problem -- tell anyone you want.

>         9) For how many of you is "exoticness" in your invented language
> and absolute must?  How many of you pursue more familiar models... and
> why to both?
No, usefulness and aesthetics are my two primary concerns, uniqueness is good but
not good enough to compromise the latter two for, though I do try to
de-Germanize/Anglicize the language wherever convenient, in order to make it
more wholly my own creation.

>         9)  FINALLY: what is the appeal of an invented language for you?
> Wherein is its "sexiness"?  Its spirituality?  its sensuality?
I like Danoven (which is my one and only conlang, to answer your added-on
question) because it's such a great language to *think* in; generally I prefer
not to think in words at all, but when I do I try always to do it in Danoven;
it makes verbal thought like writing a scientific treatise while composing a
sonata at the same time, while wasting no thought at all on the language itself
-- English is an ape's language to think in (sorry, Sally!). "Sexiness"? Well,
I used to think that sharing my personal language with a girlfriend would be
pretty neat, but far from finding it intimate, the only one I ever suggested
this to looked as if I were offering to lecture her on the anatomy of the sea
cucumber, so I dropped that idea. Spirituality -- for me the "spirit" is the
same as the "mind" (though not neccessarily the conscious mind), so in that
sense you could call Danoven/Aroven a very spiritual undertaking. Sensuality --
the language is very pleasing to me aesthetically, if !
th!
!
!
at's what you mean.  It was, after all, built to be that way :)

Hope this is in some way useful,
A most devoted lunatic,
JJS


Danovkn pages(updated, illustrated, improved version coming soon, with an introduction
to Arovkn, the emerging "spoken dialect" of the language):
http://members.tripod.com/~Paradox5/Danoven/danoven.html

e-mail (take your pick :)
  temporary (until the 29th, maybe later): bblakes@iu.net
  permanent (though I seldom check it): vehreneld@usa.net
  Swiss (though I'm not back yet): jshinavi@g26.ethz.ch
  Danovkn (though other people will see it): danoven@makelist.com

P.S. I'll get back to everyone I said I was going to mail/post to after I'm again
at my Swiss address (don't be fooled by FindMail -- I'm in Florida again, not
in Switz.).


-----
See the original message at http://www.egroups.com/list/conlang/?start=16229
--
Free e-mail group hosting at http://www.eGroups.com/