Re: OT: Justifying a stress pattern (plus OT: joke last name templates)

Yes, but "Mac Robertson" where "Mac" is someone's given (nick)name is
not at all the same as some alleged surname "MacRobertson", even when
spelled in a similarly spaceless manner.


On 12/30/07, T. A. McLeay <conlang@...> wrote:
> Mark J. Reed wrote:
> > On Dec 30, 2007 12:28 AM, Eric Christopherson <rakko@...> wrote:
> >> Somewhat off-topic: I was thinking the other day about my last name
> >> and why it's accented on the second syllable rather than the first
> >> (vs. the given name Christopher). I have a theory that maybe it's
> >> because the majority of -erson names in English are accented on the
> >> syllable just before -erson.
> >
> > It's far more general than that.   Adding morphemes to English words
> > often shifts the emphasis.    For instance, pick almost any adjective
> > with stress that's not on the final syllable.   If you add "-ity" to
> > nominalize it, ithe stress shifts:  '[fn]ormal => [fn]or'mality,
> > 'viscous => vis'cosity.  'tranquil => tran'quility; sub'jective =>
> > subjec'tivity.  This can happen even when a morpheme is removed first:
> >  a'nonymous => ano'nymity.
>
> And Eric replied:
>
> > Right, but my impression was that those words had gone through
> > natural evolution in English, whereas borrowed (from Scandinavian)
> > names would not have gone through it -- but I don't know how long the
> > name has existed in English; maybe it has been there long enough to
> > evolve with the rest.
>
> The stress change wasn't evolution in English, it happened in Latin. We
> simply retained it, for the most part. So a suffix of germanic origin
> wouldn't be likely to cause stress change other than under the influence
> of these romance suffixes (this could be viewed as an unnatural
> evolution, I suppose, if there's any contrast when talking about human
> social things).
>
> >> It's also funny that people use Mc-, which, being an Irish and
> >> Scottish Gaelic-derived prefix, doesn't tend to occur along with the
> >> mostly Scandinavian -[s]son/-[s]sen or German -[s]sohn. There is
> >> McPherson, but that doesn't count because the -son is not derived
> >> from its own morpheme.
> >
> > Well, I think that's intentional.  McSillyson is funny precisely
> > because it's unlikely - and unlikely because it's redundant.   :)
>
> "MacRobertson" is a name that turns up around Melbourne because a man
> named (of all things) MacPherson Robertson started a confectionery
> company called MacRobertson's (since bought by Cadbury Schweppes) and
> got himself a lot of money which he proceeded to throw around. So
> there's a MacRobertson Girls High School and a MacRobertson Bridge
> across the Yarra (nowadays pedestrian-only). A part of the Australian
> Antarctic Territory is also called "Mac Robertson Land".
>
> --
> Tristan.
>

--
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

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