R A Brown skrev:
> Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
> [snip]
>
>>
>> The Longman Pronouncing Dictionary (JC Wells) gives /jQg/ or /joug/.
>
>
> Interesting. Chambers definitely gives a short 'o' and the final sound
> as [x]. It would seem the dictionaries themselves are not agreed, which
> surely is an indication that there is no single widely accepted
> pronunciation.
I think Chambers is prescriptive and Longman descriptive in this case.
Perhaps I should also have pointed out that /jQg/ is given as the
British and /joug/ as the American pronunciation.
>>
>> I believe that if the Middle English word /jox/ had survived
>> it would have been pronounced /jou/ or /jau/, or maybe /jQf/.
>
>
> Yes - it would now be spelled 'yough' and whether 'twas /jou/ or /jQf/
> would depend upon which of the competing dialect pronunciations made its
> way into standard English for that particular word. But /au/ (and /Vf/)
> surely derive from those spellings of -ough which represented /ux/
> rather than /ox/.
<slaps head> I should have known that!
>
>> I'm afraid any pronunciation with /G/ is entirely unhistorical
>> since ME |gh| spelled /x/; /G/ had become /j/ or /w/ already in
>> late Old English times.
>
>
> Quite so. I assume those modern pronunciations with [G] are spelling
> pronunciations ;-)
Yes. I guess the most correct modern pronunciation would be /jQx/jOx/
with /-f/ for those who (strangely) can't manage [x]!
You wrote earlier:
>
> Yep - in England, at any rate, /x/ is commonly pronounced [k]. The major
> exception is the painter Van Gogh who is normally (tho not by me)
> pronounced as though the last name were written 'Gough', i.e. /gQf/ ;)
>
I say [fAn 'xox] but have usually to "explain" it as [gog] to
other Swedes. They are ignorant of Dutch spelling of course.
--
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
Solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant!
(Tacitus)