Re: Strange voices

Christophe Grandsire wrote:

> Pablo:
> >This works also with A-subject verbs, though the semantics is tricky:
> >
> >subject-A verb object-P -> subject-P OBJECT_APPLIC-verb-* [object-OBL]
> >
> >Example: dog-A bites cat-P -> dog-P OBJECT_APPLIC-bites-* [cat-OBL]
> >In my mind it looks as if the focus is shifted from the argument(s)
> >to the verbal action itself: "The dog is the one who bites [the cat]."
> Does it mean that unlike English, in Terbian transitive verbs are
> mandatorily transitive? (i.e. you cannot just omit the object) I find it a
> great idea! I think I'm gonna steal it for Maggel (what would be the name
> for such a voice? Antipassive?)
> > Does this make any sense? If so, any ideas for the name of this beast?
> I think it is an antipassive, but I'm not sure, since antipassive fits
> better in ergative contexts. Daniel? (hoping that I'm not confusing Daniel
> and Andreas, who's the active language specialist? ;))) )
No, you got it right. Not confusing me and Andreas, that is. About
me being a specialist in active languages is another matter. :)

I thought it looked somewhat like an
anti-passive as well, but not quite, since it -- as Pablo says --
focuses on the predicate in some way. "The dog" shifts from A to P,
but "bite" is still a predicate that takes an A subject, IINM.
But instead it takes a P. Why is that?

Demoting the object to oblique, and thus creating an intransitive
sentence is definitely an anti-passive.

Does the sentence mean something like "the dog does biting (to the cat)"?
Or perhaps "Biting was done by the dog (to the cat)", where "by the
dog" is still seen as an object and not an oblique? I mean that perhaps
the predicate "biting" is the new "subject", by some nominalization
process that goes hand in hand with the applicative?
Or is "the dog" still the subject, but "demoted" in some way to P-marking, which in
turn leads to the focus on the action itself?

Or is "bite" transformed into an adjective of some kind? Like
"be the one who bites", and then it's a stative verb, and thus
takes a P subject?

I think it's a very interesting voice, and I'd like to see more
of it, since MNCL Piata is also active/split-S (or rather fluid-S).

Daniel Andreasson

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