Re: USAGE: Internetese deviancy - the definite article

David Barrow wrote:
> I. K. Peylough wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 12:09:39 -0500, David Barrow
>> <davidab@...> wrote:
>>
>>> Gary Shannon wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> I still haven't figured out how the British decide to
>>>> DROP "the" in so many odd places like "going to
>>>> hospital" instead of "going to THE hospital."  Does
>>>> anybody know what the rule is for when to drop "the"
>>>> in order to speak proper British?  For example, does
>>>> one say "I'm going to the city", or "I'm going to
>>>> city"?
>>>>
>>>> Somehow, "going to university" makes "university"
>>>> sound like a verb to me.  "I'm going to university and
>>>> then I'm going to sing, and if you don't watch out I'm
>>>> going to hospital you right in the face."
>>>>
>>>> --gary
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The basic idea is institutions used for their intended purpose
>>> In hospital for treatment v in the hospital to visit a patient
>>> In prison to serve a sentence v in the prison to speak to some prisoners
>>> At school, at college, at university to study v at the school, at
>>> college, at university for a party
>>> At church for the service v at the church to repair the stained-glass
>>> windows
>>>
>>> We say to, in(to) the city but to, in(to) town.
>>>
>>> David Barrow
>>>
>>>
>>
>> * examples 1 & 2 have "in" vs. "in the"
>> * examples 3 & 4 have "at" vs. "at the" (except that "the" seems to have
>> been omitted before "college" and "university")
>>
>>
> Unitentionally. Should have been at the college, at the university
>
>> 3 & 4 (minus the exception) are like American English.
>> 1 & 2 in American English:
>> 1. In *the* hospital for treatment v _at_ the hospital to visit a patient
>> 2. In *the* prison to serve a sentence v _at_ the prison to speak to some
>> prisoners
>>
>> so Britich "in the" becomes American "at the" and British "in" becomes
>> American "in the". Note that 3 & 4 preclude an American to Britich rule!
>>
>> IKP
>>
> So Americans have 'in jail' but 'in the prison' for convicts?
>
> For me the difference between 'at' and 'in' is one of precision. 'in'
> means in the building you know the person is inside at this moment, 'at'
> when you don't know for sure the person is inside right now. They could
> be waiting outside or in the garden or in regular attendance but maybe
> not right now
>
> the kid is in school studying means in class
> his mother is in the school talking to the teachers means she's inside
> the school
> the kid is at school means he goes to school but is not necessarily
> there right now
> his mother is at the school to pick up her children.  She could be
> inside or she could be outside waiting in her car
>
> in prison (obviously inside) for a convict but it can be in the prison
> or at the prison for a visitor
> in hospital for a patient. In the hospital or at the hospital for a visitor
>
> If you are talking about a person who is visiting a patient or a prisoner
> If you are standing outside the hospital or prison you'd say
> s/he's in the hospital/prison
> If you are away from the hospital or prison you'd say
> s/he's at the hospital/prison
>
> David Barrow
>
I just have to reply to this subthread, but I can only speak for myself
and the people that live around here. I'm from Tennessee, and therefore
the southern US. The Southern US dialect is, of course, a mix of
American lexicon, British syntax, and phonology from nowhere on this
earth. ;)

For me it's like this:

"in" means (for me) that you are in the place on a regular basis. "in
school/college" means you are a student that goes to school. "in
prison/jail" means you are serving time. "in hospital/university" means
you are a Brit :P

"at" would mean that you are in that place currently, as part of a
regular "in" basis. "at school" means you are "in school", but also that
you are actually inside the school. "at church" means "inside the church
during services", etc. (For "at hospital/university" see above. I've
never heard "at prison")

"in the" is what I would use for someone inside the specific
school/church/whatever building, while I was outside that building, but
near it. "at the" would, conversely, mean that you were inside, but I
was at home.

The whole thing seems pretty irregular, and I'm sure I left out some
details. People here can usually figure out what you mean, but it might
take them a while.

--
Michael

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