Re: going without "without"
| From: | Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@...> |
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| Date: | Tuesday, August 17, 1999, 20:10 |
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On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:09:16 +0200 Irina Rempt-Drijfhout
<ira@...> responded to:
>> How do
>> people express "without" in their conlangs?
In Rokbeigalmki, both "without" and "with" are unrelated
prespositions/caseprefixes:
with / using = ya'
with / next to = sa'
without = ja'
_ya'_ is also used for the actor in a passive sentence:
yagul-a uzu-manoi-ad ya'beijabal
fish-the it|PAST-eat-PASSIVE by'bear
"the fish was eaten by a bear".
"I'm going to that house with or without you"
= _azazii-mwe wa'waju-a dhu-a sa'esh au ja'esh_
...sa'esh au ja'esh
...with'you or without'you
Although, there's no negative equivalent to _ya'_...
"You went sailing without a boat?"
= _ha'ezu-zail ja'yaur ezihd?_
ha'ezu-zail ja'yaur ezihd
Q'you|PAST-sail without'using boat
_ja'yaur_ is a compound (therefore disconnected) preposition.
The noun forms of these prepositions are:
yaur = a use
saur = a side
jaur = a lack
Hmm...in natlangs, Hebrew also has unrelated "with" and "without".
with / using = /b@/-
together with = /3im/
without = /b@li:/
However, when /3im/ is declined for person it turns into a form of /?eT/,
the object marker.
In Biblical Hebrew, /?eT/ meant both the known-direct-object marker and
"with", but it *declines* differently depending on the meaning.
For "object marker", the suffixes are added to the form /?o:T/.
For "with", the suffixes are added to the form /?it/.
Also, /b@li:/ turns into /bil3a;D/-, with [a;] meaning a _hhattaf
patahh_, "ultrashort"(?) [a] replacing a shva.
/bil3a;D/- comes from /bil3a;Dej/, which seems to be an "old-style"
preposition with that pattern:
/bil3a;Dej/
/3a;lej/ >> /3al/
/?E;lej/ >> /?El/
/3im/ can be declined as itself, though, as either the form /3imm/- or
/3immOD/-.
-Stephen (Steg)
"hhalomot zeh b'emet"
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