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Deux & erku, was: Hospitable/hostile

From:Vasiliy Chernov <bc_@...>
Date:Tuesday, January 29, 2002, 18:10
On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:38:49 -0000, Lars Henrik Mathiesen <thorinn@...>

>> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:49:04 -0500 >> From: Vasiliy Chernov <bc_@...> >> >> On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:43:19 -0000, Lars Henrik Mathiesen
>> wrote: >> >French /d2/: not too weird, but I'm too lazy to look up how it came to >> >have a front rounded vowel. >> >> duo:s > do:s > dous > d2ys > d2:x > d2h > d2: > d2 > >Thanks --- I guess that's fronting caused by the /s/.
No. Actually, I should have given more details. duo:s > do(:)s (contraction + loss of quantity distinctions) - in (most dialects of) VL; do(:)s > do:s (new phonemization of quantities in stressed syllables depending on the original syllable structure; /o:/ now opposed to both /o/ and /O:/) - in Gallo-Romance; do:s > dous (a diphthongization parallel to /e:/ > /ei/ and emphasizing the diference from /O:/ > /uO/) - in late Gallo-Romance or very early Old French; dous > døys (graphically {ou} > {eu}; a change parallel to /u/ > /y/ {u}, and /uO/ > /yœ/, graphically {uo} > {ue}) - in Central French ( = Francien) by (the end of?) 11th century. døys > dø(:)s (monophthongization, perhaps associated with new loss of quantities) in later Old French (which is hard to date precisely, since the spelling did not change; but confusion of {eu} and {ue} seems to happen as early as in 13th century, at least occasionally).
>By the way, is >that x an X-SAMPA /x/? I thought that French just dropped consonants >in absolute final position, no bother with intermediate lenitions...
I don't know for the other consonants, but /s/ > /x/ (syllable-finally) seems to be a well established change. An evidence I can recall is based on Middle High German transcriptions of (late) Old French (there are quite a few transcribed French phrases e. g. in minnesingers' poems). For example, with _est_ written {echt} (I don't remember the examples for word-final {ch}, but it seems there were some). I sort of recall there were also other evidences which I forget. Curiously, in the history of French, phonemic vowel quantities then re-apperared once more (which involved changes like /Vx/ > /V:/, /@V/ > /V:/, /au/ > /o:/) and finally were lost again (yielding new quality distinctions like /a/ vs. /A(:)/, /O/ vs. /o(:)/, etc.). That is, loss of quantities happened thrice in less than two millennia!
>> >Armenian /Erku/: /d/ and /r/ can both be realized as a flap [4], /w/ >> >often has some velar constriction, and then an epenthetic vowel: >> > >> > */dwo/ > [4wo] > [4ku] > /rku/ > /Erku/ >> >> Or perhaps dw- > dg_w- > rg_w- > rk_w- > ... > >Indeed, a voiced labiovelar is more plausible as the intermediary for >/w/ > /k/ -- I knew I had forgotten something. I haven't been able to >find out what the accepted view is on the order of the changes,
I don't know that either. But it seemed to me that /d/ is somewhat closer to /4/, while /w/ should have changed to /g_w/ (with a later devoicing, like in the other non-aspirated voiced stops) rather than directly to /k_w/, whence the proposed sequence of changes. But /tk(_w)/ > /4k(_w)/ isn't totally impossible, either.
>but I >still think it looks better if the first stop is changed to something >different before another is introduced: > > */dwo/ > /L*wo/ > /L*g_wo/ > /L*k_wo/ > /rk_wo/ > /rku/ > /Erku/
I see. Yes, this seems probable, too. (OTOH two stops would be more prone to dissimilation, IMO)
>where /L*/ is some alveolar liquid phoneme that can not be determined >more precisely --- /d/ > /l/ as a direct step may be more common than >/d/ > /r/.
It depends. For example, on the exact quality of /d/: if it was retroflex, direct change /d/ > /r/ may be more natural (cf. American English). BTW, it seems that Armenian does not confuse PIE /r/ and /l/. Or do I forget something? At any rate, the examples of /r/ in place of IE /l/ which I've seen all looked like Iranisms (very common in Armenian).
>Lars Mathiesen (U of Copenhagen CS Dep) <thorinn@...> (Humour NOT
marked) Basilius


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