Re: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis

"Thomas R. Wier" wrote:
> I think part of the problem with understanding the Sapir-Whorf
> dilemma is that culture and language are so often interconnected
Which is why I said a while back that they aren't really separable.
Indeed, changes often are both linguistic and cultural at the same
time.  If a foreign people bring new ideas to a group, say a new
religion, then even if the foreigners attempt to learn the language,
they will inevitably be influenced by their native language.  And if
they are successful in introducing these new ideas, they may be highly
respected, and therefore have a good deal of influence on the language,
and the new ideas will obviously affect the culture.  In addition,
internal changes to culture often involve deliberate changes in
language.  The Quakers deliberately abandoned the "ye/you" forms in
favor of "thou/thee" to everyone, to underscore their extreme
egalitarianism.  In modern times, complex pronouns like "he/she" are
appearing.  Is this a change in language to reflect cultural change, or
a language change attempting to effect cultural change?  A little of
both, I think.

> Did evidentiality become all-important in Quechua because the
> culture valued knowledge of the evidence of one's assertions, or
> did it get lodged in there almost by accident, and thereby force
> people to think about it more often?  One could see it both ways.
Right.  Indeed, my guess would be that optional methods of indicating
evidentiality appeared (are they suffixes?  I think they are), and that
culture considered it important, while ours, perhaps, might not.  So,
because they were considered important, at least by some, they became
used more often, and that in turn helped shape their thoughts into a
pattern of considering it more important, and so on until they became
mandatory.

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