Re: Extra Syllabic Consonants
| From: | R A Brown <ray@...> |
|---|
| Date: | Friday, September 16, 2005, 10:15 |
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Shreyas Sampat wrote:
> Paul Bennett wrote:
>
>> Come to think of it, I *swear* I remember on this very list a
>> compelling case being made that a particular Berber word (or maybe
>> more than one?) had syllabic /t/, but I might be misremembering.
>
This is a _phonological_ syllabic /t/ as the slashes show. I find the
concept of a phonetic syllabic [t] rather difficult.
Um - as for the first, I remain, as many know, skeptical about the
concept of generative grammar. The html page does at least contain WAV
files - but when I play some of them, it is IMO difficult to match them
up to the phonemic transcription.
I suppose once it became fashionable to derive phonological descriptions
showing how certain languages had no phonemic vowels (I remain
skeptical), it is a short step to deriving phonological descriptions
which show that language X has no syllables. Sometimes I wonder if some
phonological theories are not too clever for their own good ;)
============================================
veritosproject@GMAIL.COM wrote:
>I'm a French speaker, and in "que je travaille", there is a slight
>pause (almost, but not completely, a schwa) between "que" and
>"travaille".
>
>
My experience with French speakers (my daughter-in-law is one) is that
there is considerable variation in the use of shwa, even in the same
speaker in different styles (i.e. formal or colloquial).
>On 9/15/05, # 1 <salut_vous_autre@...> wrote:
>
>
[snip]
>>But I think and it makes me thing a a few consonnants clusters that can
>>result of French contractions.
>>
>>"que je travaille" (that I work) that contracts in /kStRavaj/. Isn't /kStR/
>>an interesting cluster?
>>
>>
>>Concerning an other point that has been raised but that I don't really want
>>to search among the posts because it would be too long, I think that any
>>consonnant can be syllabic, even voiceless fricatives, even plosives.
>>
>>But the trouble is that a syllabic voiceless plosive makes almost no sound,
>>don't you think?
>>
>>
IMO _phonetically_ it makes no sound that could constitute a syllabic
nucleus - but I assume this thread is about phonological features. As
far as I know, extrasyllabicity is a phonological concept.
It is important IMO not to confuse phonology and phonetics, otherwise we
produce even greater confusion :)
--
Ray
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