Re: Uusisuom, Unilang, auxlang discussions in CONLANG

I apologize in advance if I offend anyone...just some thoughts.  If you
want a specific apology, just ask for it; this is Hell Week in terms of
prelims for me, so I may not be thinking straight.  :-p

On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Oskar Gudlaugsson wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:52:03 +0100, Daniel44 <Daniel44@...>
> wrote:
>
> >This is what provoked my strong reaction. Whatever else you might say about
> >the Uusisuom language, it is not inadequate.
Eh..."inadequate" has to be accompanied with "inadequate for
<something>."  For example, if I were to try to write up all my notes on
abstract algebra in Uusisuom, I suspect I'd rapidly run into a lack of
vocabulary.  OTOH, Uusisuom's goal isn't to be an
abstract-algebra-translation conlang.  (Though if anyone invents a
conlang in which "group of automorphisms," "homomorphism," and
"multiplicative group of n elements" can be reduced to Very Short Words,
sign me up!)

> >The only thing I would ever ask of anyone is to take a good objective look
> >at Uusisuom and consider it on its actual merits.
>
> Daniel, have _you_ actually stopped to take a good objective look at
> _others'_ conlangs, and consider them on their actual merits? I haven't
> noticed any comments from you on anything beside your own conlang; how can
> you expect us to consider it so enthusiastically, let alone _learn_ it (an
> unprecedented expectation from a conlanger)?
<wry g>  I have seen many fascinating conlangs pass by this list (and
I've only been on here for less than a year!), yet I confess that had I
the time to learn someone's conlang, I'd probably learn Teonaht, amman
iar, or Verdurian (http://www.zompist.com, Mark Rosenfelder--is he on
this list?).  And this has nothing to do with whether the ones I *don't*
want to learn are somehow inadequate, really, it has to do with my
personal preferences in a language and with the fact that those are some
conlangs that *are* fairly extensively documented (from my POV).  I like
their flavor.  And we're all individuals in our tastes, else our conlangs
would all look awfully similar.  :-)

And none of the above, I think, was intended as an auxlang (correct me if
I'm wrong).  They have cultural flavor.  When I had time to read through
the "preliminary concepts" part of the amman iar website, I was
fascinated by the way semantic roles were handled.  Teonaht sounded
lovely to my inexperienced ear.  And Verdurian--heck, it comes with maps
and a whole fictional fascinating country and history.

Face it--it takes some amount of effort to learn a pre-existing language
with lots of good grammars (...though I must say, I have yet to see a
Korean grammar for English speakers that satisfies me at all in terms of
organization) and a solid speaker base and references.  Most of the
reason that my ability to produce French (as opposed to reading it) is
deteriorating is I don't know anyone close by who knows enough French to
practice with me.  And part of the pleasure, for me, *is* speech and
learning to produce (however fumblingly) new sounds.  Absence of a
speaker-community is something I consider unfortunate, and realistically
your average conlang isn't going to have a high concentration of speakers
in random city X.

And come to that, I don't expect *anyone* to ever try to learn the
conlangs I've put effort into.  Granted, I conlang for culture-building
and learning about linguistics, not to create an actual language that
people would use.  (Though I keep having really evil ideas for Tsuhon,
the German-Japanese blend--perhaps I should post what I have for
phonology and ask for help--that I've really wanted to put more work
into.)  If anyone deigns to learn a phrase or two in my languages, I
confess I'm very flattered.

I am sure this has been done before, but I would love to see a conlang
phrasebook for this echo; I just don't know where to get to the search
engine, and going through past postings to glean translation gems would
be a massive undertaking.  It'd be a fun pastime, though--and I *would*
someday like to know "greetings!" or some friendly sentiment in a conlang
by everyone on this list.  It probably isn't happening in the near
future, but that'd just be neat.

> I arrive at the heart of the matter: reasoning and discussion cannot be
> unilateral. In order to convince any but the most gullible persons, it is
> useless to repeat what may seem obvious to you. We, being reasonably
> intelligent persons, require at least rudimentary arguments to be convinced
> of anything at all. Intercommunication is what this mailing list is for,
> and for that matter, so is this internet technology, and of course all
> these languages we love so much.
Mmm...well, frankly I ignore Daniel's *claims* for Uuisuom, since they
don't tell me anything I find useful, and just look at the language
itself on occasion (or as much as I look at anyone else's posted language
when I have time between classes and homework).  He's free to make those
claims, I suppose, but since I am one of those who is completely
uninterested in the AUXlang aspect (as opposed to the lang in
itself)...<shrug>  The constant repetitions of the same assertions are
only annoying if you actually bother reading them...and I delete a ton of
conlang traffic without reading closely because there isn't time, already.

I have yet to be convinced that any language is all-around better than
another; a particular language (or conlang) might be better in a given
situation, but that's a different story.  (Much as it'd be funny to write
up my math take-home prelim in someone's conlang that has a fairly
well-developed mathematical vocabulary, I have this sneaking suspicion
Prof. Sen wouldn't appreciate it....<G>)

(And it's sad--I don't even have numbers in Chevraqis, yet I'm a math
major.  OTOH math majors are the last people on earth you want to do your
arithmetic for you....)

YHL

Replies