Re: LANGUE NATURELLE: Les groupes des verbes en Français (Re: TECH: Official languages of the list)
| From: | I. K. Peylough <ikpeylough@...> |
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| Date: | Friday, August 20, 2004, 6:12 |
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On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:45:26 -0400, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...> wrote:
>On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 09:10:03PM +0100, Joe wrote:
>> Trebor Jung wrote:
>
>> The '-er' verbs mostly come from Latin '-are' and, I think,
>> 'ére'(Hence Spanish 'cantar' to French 'chanter'),
>
>And It. cantare, all from Latin cantÄre.
>
>> the '-re' verbs come from '-ere', I think
>> (Spanish 'vender', French 'vendre').
>
>Both from Latin "vendere", which was usually encountered in CL via its
>passive form "venire".
Huh? Oh, you mean ve:ni:re (be sold), distinct from veni:re (come).
>Classical Latin had four verb conjugations, seem to have collapsed to
>fewer in the Romance languages. The four CL conjugations were:
>
>1st: Äre (long) A-stem
>2nd: Ä“re long E-stem
>3rd: ere short E-stem
>4th: Ä«re (long) I-stem
>
>The 3rd conjugation was further subdivided, as some verbs regularly
>inserted an -i- between the stem and a certain subset of the endings.
>
>In Spanish, the 1st conjugation verbs became -ar verbs; the
>2nd and 3rd conjugation verbs became -er verbs; and the 4th
>conjugation verbs became -ir verbs. Which seems eminently logical.
>
>The French, of course, Had To Be Different. ;-) While the fourth
>conjugation verbs went to -ir, as in Spanish, the other three were
>treated differently. French has no -ar verbs; the 1st and 2nd
>conjugation verbs merged in -er, while the 3rd became -re. (In both
>cases, the final form is due to a reduction from short E to zero in part
>of the ending: -e:r(e) -> -er, -(e)re -> -re.)
>
>-Marcos
Am I missing something?
Infinitives:
Latin Italian French
1st -a:re -are -er
2nd -e:re -ere -oir
3rd -ere -ere * -re
4th -i:re -ire -ir
* stress on antepenult rather than penult.
Pretty straightforward, except that a number of verbs switched
conjugations, for some words apparently in common romance. Iberian romance
effectively eliminated the 3rd conjugation, as [Marcos] said, and switched
even more verbs. Now the Latin perfect system .....
I
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