Re: Chinese writing systems
|From:||Barry Garcia <barry_garcia@...>|
|Date:||Monday, November 4, 2002, 7:32|
>This is a common mistake. Japan does not only use 1946 kanji. School
>program include this number, but japanese people usualy know more.
>University students, and teacher usualy know as much a 4 to 6 thousands,
>which is almost as much as chinese people.
Yes, but i was referring to the joyo kanji. I know that the Japanese often
use more due to such things as familial names, etc. But by and large to be
able to read most things in Japanese you only need the Joyo kanji (i'm
speaking of Basics). This does not mean they read chinese.
You're also including the educated here, which know more than the common
people who do not go to college. It's much like expecting your common
middle american farmer to understand many of the commonly used french and
german terms found in essays and research papers for universities.
>>North Korea doesnt use Hanzi at all.
>In the official script. Yet the north korean students in my class(chinese
>language class) do have a certain knoledge of hanzi, as most educated
>people in north korea do.
"A certain knowledge" doesnt mean comprehension.
Educated people. And you admitted that these students are in your Chinese
language class. I'd be willing to assume that the educated people there
also learn some chinese. But, do the common folk? Those educated in
Universities shouldn't be confused with the common populace.
>>South Korea uses a mixed system, but
>>still uses quite a bit of Hangul.
>Yes, they mainly use hangul. but also use quite a lot of hanzi, (called
>hanja, if i ma corect).
I already said that.
>>Vietnam gave up Hanzi ages ago and uses.
>>a modified Roman system.
And it's one of the countries with a long tradition of Chinese culture.
But uses an exclusively roman alphabet.
>> Tibet has it's own writing system.
>tibet is not a country. China claims, and it is internationaly admited
>that it is part of china. I don't want to enter the debate of knowing if
>tibetan people are happy this way, but there is no other governement in
>tibet than the chinese one. And though tibetan language has (now) are
>freedom of existance, mandarin is still the official language there.
I was speaking in terms of a large group of people tied culturally and
distinct from their ruling nation, and Speak a language related to Chinese
and yet don't use Chinese writing.
>Taiwan is not part of china (though china would like things to be so),
>but speeks mandarin, and write hanzi. I beleive(but i am not sure for
>this one) that chinese is still one of the official languages in
>And the chinese diaspora, rather present in most countries in the world,
>and often having a strong position in many asian countries, write hanzi
>when they need to write their language, since up to now, there is no
>other way to write it.
Yes, and they also use the traditional system while the Chinese use the
simplified. My friend Irene whose family is from Taiwan says she can't
read simplified Chinese.
>I think china makes more efforts for international (western)
>understanding than you seem to think....
I never said anything you're presumptuously talking about here. Please
don't read into what i say more than what's there. I was responding to and
asking you about this:
>It would get china closer to some part of the world, but again, more
>distant with some other asian nations which have had strong relations
>with china for hundreds (thousands?) of years."
Again, how does China using Pinyin exclusively for instance, put it more
distant with some other nations since these other nations do NOT write in
chinese and do not understand it (i'll reiterate: Getting the idea does
NOT mean comprehension)?
One poster did admit that some Japanese can get an idea, but getting an
idea does not mean comprehension of a text (i can get an idea of an
Italian text from what I know of sound changes and similar Spanish words,
but it doesnt mean i understand it). In fact i'm pretty sure some of those
countries would gladly distance themselves from China.
So again, I ask you, how would it make it more distant from:
Taiwan, N. Korea, S. Korea, Japan, and Tibet (included only due to the
contact it's traditionally had with China. ANd yes i know it's a part of