California Dreamin', vowel dept.(was New Try from a New Guy)
|From:||Roger Mills <romilly@...>|
|Date:||Wednesday, December 18, 2002, 0:01|
Arthaey Angosii wrote:
>Emaelivpahr Roger Mills:
>>That's pretty standard US, and coincides with what I've always used. Alot
>>people seem to have the same vowel in father and cot [A], and
>>_supposedly_ the/a Calif. dialect also has [A] in caught.
>>And Arthaey Argosii wrote:
>>>Arrrg! I hate vowels. They're impossible to compare by using "standard"
>>English words. As far as I can tell from listening to my own
>>pronunciations, "father," "cot," and "caught" all rhyme perfectly. Only
>>"cut" sounds different.>
>Yup. Seems I'v validated your "supposed" dialect. Could you try
>explaining what vowels everyone else is using?
Yikes! I couldn't even begin......:-) Check the archives, and happy
hunting. Everyone, somewhere, sometime, has posted a mini-dissertation or
two on their own pronunciation.
>In my introductory
>linguistics class, I never was able to hear the difference between [A] and
>the open-o/turned-c vowel.
The main differences: [A] has maximum normal lowering of the jaw (by normal
I mean, not exaggerated as when the Dr. asks you to say aaah), the tongue is
pretty much at rest in the bottom of the mouth, and the lips are not
rounded/protruded at all. (If you round your lips in this position, you get
[O] is less open (about midway between [o] and [A]-- (for me, it seems I
drop my jaw about 1/4 in. from [o] position), the tongue is less tense than
for [o] but more than for [A], the back bunches up slightly toward the
velum, and the lips are rounded/protruded (not as much as for [o] but
Do you know German by any chance? Their "short o" as in Gott, Schloss is
close, though less drawn-out than in Engl.
Here's something else to try: make a good pure [u], and maintain that
position as you slowly lower your jaw. (Automatically, your tongue will also
gradually lower and your lips become less rounded) Hopefully, just a bit
before maximum opening, you'll find yourself saying [O]. Then the trick is
to hit that spot consistently. (This works nicely for the front vowel
continuum too; and the central vowels with practice)
I've never heard this particular dialect-- my last visit to Calif. was
almost 40 years ago and I wasn't paying much attention to such things, and
my relatives there are transplanted midwesterners, so they're no help... I
don't seem to hear it much on TV interviews with Hollywood types, but
they're hardly typical either.... Frankly, I do find it hard to believe that
(especially) open monosyllables like _law, raw, paw, saw_ really and truly
have the same vowel [A] as father, cot (I can accept caught as rhyming,
because things do happen in closed syllables).
Is it possible y'all are using slightly rounded [Q] in all these cases
rather can completely unrounded [A] ? That I could believe. (BTW how do you
pronounce "y'all"? it's [jOl] for me)
law [lA]? the musical note following sol, or Span. for 'the(F.)'
raw [rA]? what you yell at sporting events
paw [p_hA]? daddy
saw [sA]???? doesn't exist in my dialect. Close to French ça.