Re: Help in Determining Asha'ille Typology

Quoting Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>:

> Quoting "Thomas R. Wier" <trwier@...>:
>
> > Quoting Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>:
> >
> > > Quoting "Thomas R. Wier" <trwier@...>:
> > >
> > > > Quoting Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>:
> > > >
> > > > > > 1) I eat food.
> > > > > > 2) I run.
> > > > > > 3) I fall.
> > > >
> > > > [...]
> > > >
> > > > > What would we call a language that marks "I" from (1) the same as
> > > > > "I" in (3), and "I" in (2) the same as "food" in (1)? Beyond
> > > > > weird, that is.
> > > >
> > > > This would still be a split-S language.  Split-S languages are
> > > > defined, in contrast to fluid-S languages, by the fact that verbs
> > > > simply subcategorize for whether the single argument patterns as
> > > > the NP-1 of transitives or NP-2 of transitives.  It is also
> > > > characteristic of such languages that many verbs take the unexpected
> > > > marking, such as patientive for run or agentive for fall.
> > >
> > > I didn't state my question clearly enough to exclude the possibility of
> > > a language with semantic marking. You could have language that uses
> >
> > But in principle, split-S languages *don't* have semantic
> > marking.  It just so happens that there is a strong tendency
> > for semantic and syntactic features to coincide in this way.
> > But as far as the system is concerned, semantics have nothing
> > to do with it. (The case is otherwise in a fluid-S system.)
>
> I appear to have some communicational problems as regards this thread. I
> tried to say that the language could be fluid-S.
Ah. That was not entirely clear to me.

> Now, a split-S language which fairly consistently used the unexpected
> marking would still prompt us to search for an explanation, would it not?
Yes, it would be exceedingly strange, and one would expect it
to begin decaying immediately.

 =========================================================================
Thomas Wier            "I find it useful to meet my subjects personally,
Dept. of Linguistics    because our secret police don't get it right
University of Chicago   half the time." -- octogenarian Sheikh Zayed of
1010 E. 59th Street     Abu Dhabi, to a French reporter.
Chicago, IL 60637