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Re: CHAT French unde's (was: French undies (was: Re: Linguistic Terminology))

From:Raymond A. Brown <raybrown@...>
Date:Thursday, January 7, 1999, 21:50
At 3:05 pm +0800 7/1/99, Douglas Koller wrote:
>Raymond A. Brown wrote:
> >I hadn't considered this. Beyond employee and referee, though, for me, >the ending -ee pronounced stressed /i/ is normally used in contrast to >-er; i.e. -er is the one who does, -ee is the one who is done to. >Probably starting from familiar distinctions like employer - employee, >this usage has extended to almost any ol' transitive verb: kisser - >kissee; caller - callee; groper - gropee
The same usage is common this side of the pond also. In educational circles we now have 'tutee' (yuk), being those students for whom a tutor is responsible! But here the ending -ee is uniformally [i] in all words including 'divorcee' (even tho 'divorser' is rare) and 'referee'. .....
>you were dumped against your will. Fiancee /fiansi/ just doesn't work >for me (as what is a fiancer?).
Ah, that's different. 'Fiancee' is the feminine of 'fiance' which, in French, has an acute on the final -e. Both words are used here and both pronounced more or less /fi'a~sei/ or /fi'Onsei/ butgenerally stressed, be it noted, on the penultimate, though pronunciations close to genuine French are not uncommon. .......
>/lan(d)Z@rej/ - /la~Z@rej/ already discussed). I have a hard time >imagining most Americans really trying hard for the French "r".
I'm imagining it right now ;-) Ray.