Re: Quest for colours: what's basic then?

Hi!

Levi Tooker <lrtooker@...> writes:
>...
> a. Monolexemic (non-compositional). It's meaning is not predictable from
> the meaning of its parts.
> bluish, lemon-colored, salmon-colored, the color of rust on the car
>...
> d. Psychologically salient. Appears early in lists of colors, has stable
> reference across speakers and occasions of use, appears in the ideolect of
> each speaker.
> bluish, lemon-colored, salmon-colored, the color of rust on the car,
> crimson, scarlet, blond
>
> e. If something is doubtful (hasn't yet been eliminated):
> --i. Same distribution as uncontroversial basic terms. reddish, greenish,
> *aquaish
> --ii. Shouldn't also be the name of an object. gold, silver, ash (note:
> orange wasn't doubtful)
> --iii. Shouldn't be a recent foreign loan word.
> --iv. Shouldn't be morphologically complex. blue-green
Thanks for the recipe! :-)

> > German 'Türkis' is a mineral but still represents a colour not
> > describable by other colour terms + modification.  This must be a
> > criterion, too.
>
> If german 'Türkis' is anything like English 'turquoise',
I suppose so.

> it ought to be eliminated by criterion (d) as I'm sure many speakers
> do not know or are unsure what 'turquoise' means and it certainly
> doesn't occur early in lists of colors. And if criterion (d) doesn't
> do it, the fact that it's a (relatively) recent French loan as well
> as the name of an object ought to.
No, I don't think so.  It is neither doubtful as it does appear early
on the list speakers will give you, nor is it used inconsistently.
When I reviewed the Russian list, 'türkis' was clearly missing without
thinking at all.  It is not blue and not green.  I think 'brown' and
'grey' would have taken longer to come up with for me.

Maybe some other Germans can comment on this, since, of course, it
does not help that one German says so. :-)  A second speaker, my girl
friend, also listed it before she had to start thinking.  Then there
was a pause and she listed 'brown', too.  And after another pause, we
proposed 'kaki' and gave a reason for it, so that was the first one
that seemed doubtful.

I will ask her whether she agrees on exclusion of other terms by the
above recipe you gave.

> > My problem was, for example, 'beige'.
>...
> A quick Google image search of the word 'beige' illustrates how unstable
> this term is across speakers. Apparently it can refer to a slightly
> yellowish brown, a brownish gray and even a color approaching white with a
> hint of tan.
Ok, that's a good criterion for exclusion.  Agreed. :-)

**Henrik

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