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Re: describing names

From:Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...>
Date:Sunday, August 4, 2002, 20:08
--- "Thomas R. Wier" <trwier@...> wrote:
> Quoting Majken M <blueelkgirl@...>:
> > 1. Her name is Mary > > 2. Her name is beautiful > > > > There is no way to be sure that she isn't called > > Beautiful, except that is an unusual name. How do > > other languages solve this problem?
Note that in writing, English distinguishes by use of the upper case in proper names. Also, we can use other verbs (than be): She's called Mary; She's named Mary.
> There are two points to be made here. First, > different languages often have very different ways > of indicating the copulative relation. Some, like > most IE languages and English, use a fully inflected > verb. Others (like Chinese) never use any copula, > use invariant particles in the place of verbs, or > (like Phaleran) use a mixture of these: copulative > particle in ongoing or habitual actions, fully > conjugated verb in other aspects.
You can distinguish in Kerno with the verb "llamar" (call or name) which couldn't be used with a simple adjective unless that _were_ her name: llamateor Marea = she's called 'Mary' llamateor Bounita = she's called 'Beautiful' Otherwise, all the other possibilites, like the copulative, are indistinct in that you can't tell if it's her name or not: et sew nom Marea = and her name 'Mary' et sew nom bounith = and her name beautiful A more literary form would be using the instrumental: nomena Morris, poz sa entrar cecueir uniwersitatte = With the name Morris, she can get into any uni. nomena bounith, poz ty ynsacar mais custumba = With the right name, you can bring in more customers. [Andrew Morris is the richest man in the FK, so naturally his children could get in anywhere they wanted.]
> Second, as has been recently noted on the list it's > important to know whether your language has > adjectives or not. Phaleran doesn't except for a > handful of particles, and many natural languages > don't. If your language requires all attribution to > be through verbs, then your question doesn't arise.
Indeed. Talarian has no adjectives, so they'd use a circumlocution like "hexonomataahti maasana" = She was named in a lovely fashion (lit., she is named with beauty). The verbal morphology is trivial here (it's 3s active punctual aorist); but the noun/adjective has to be instrumental in this instance to convey the adverbial sense. Using the nom./acc. would yield an actual name (Maasanar); using the abl. or loc. would indicate more the state of mind of the namer (i.e., the abl. would yield "She was named after something beautiful").
> Thomas Wier
Padraic. -- Aci ce Kernow le ouygaint mil, et savuriont y pherque! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better


Thomas R. Wier <trwier@...>