Re: Ethical Dative, was Re: Polysynthetic Languages

John Cowan wrote:

>David Barrow scripsit:
>
>
>
>>"He that kills me some six or seven dozens of Scots before breakfast"
>>
>>To me above dative  and the one in the Spanish  "El nene no me come la
>>comida" is more than parenthical. It conveys the idea of 'you do it for
>>me as a favour even if you are not keen on doing it for your own sake'
>>
>>
>
>I think that's a poor example.  Better is Casca's from "Julius Caesar":
>
>        Marry, before he [i.e. Caesar] fell down, when he perceived
>        the common herd was glad he refused the crown, he plucked me
>        [eth. dat.] ope[n] his doublet and offered them his throat
>        to cut.
>
>This plainly does not mean that Caesar plucked open his doublet
>*for Casca*, but rather that he feels himself relevant to the action.
>
Relevant in what sense?  I meant that to me* the ethical dative has more
than simply a parenthetical 'I wonder' sense that Fowler's says it has.
In the sentences I gave I interpret it as the speaker feeling the people
involved are doing him a favour .  In other situations it could be
interpreted  as  other than doing  the  speaker  a favour  but with the
speaker having an interest that is not simply  the  'I  wonder' of Fowler's

*emphasis on 'to me'  my interpretation of course could be completely wrong

David Barrow