Re: everyone's messages

En réponse à Samuel Rivier <samuelriv@...>:

>
> the french r is normally depicted as "R" in IPA
> transcriptions, so I stick with it. When the r is next
> to a voiced consonant ie Grande, bavarde, etc, and it
> is almost always unvoiced. As I said, I grew up around
> these sounds and because I was raised a native English
> speaker, I always pronounced the /R/ (or /X/) as /h/
> or a weak /x/.
>
Do you mean a native *French* speaker? English doesn't have an uvular 'r'. Well,
if you're French, then I'm not alone anymore on that list. Hooray!!! :)

But as for French /R/, you're right to voice it whenever possible, because it's
inherently voiced (it's a voiced uvular approximant, not a fricative). French
has a big constraint that all liquids and nasals (l, r, m and n) should be
voiced. Only when near a voiceless consonnant are they devoiced by assimilation
(and even then, voice reappears quite fast. I pronounce prendre /pRa~dR/ quite
like [pX_Ra~dR], that's to say that the first /R/ begins unvoiced, but becomes
voiced very fast, probably with the help of the following vowel. Only in the
hypothetic situation of an /R/ surrounded with two voiceless consonnants would
it be pronounced /X/, but even then a native French speaker would stick a /@/
somewhere and voice would reappear soon).

To be sure that French /R/ is inherently voiced, try to pronounce it isolated
(that's to say syllabic. It's not difficult to make syllabic continuants in
isolation. I can manage even /s=/ :) ). It should appear voiced then, just like
any liquid or approximant in French. To tell you the truth, I can barely
pronounce a voiceless uvular approximant (or fricative). Also, I tend to hear
the Southern Dutch 'g' (a voiced velar fricative) as a French 'r', while I never
mistake my 'r' with the voiceless velar fricative (Spanish 'j'). Should be
evidence enough that French 'r' is inherently voiced.

>
> All planets that spin have magnetic fields. Thus I
> think that we can induce that all that which would be
> defined as a planet has a magnetic field. Venus barely
> has one because its spin is so slow, but it exists
> nonetheless.
>
Absolutely not. Having a spin is not enough to have a magnetic field. You need
also at least a metallic core IIRC, plus a few other conditions.

Christophe.

http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr