Re: Why we don't discuss auxlangs on CONLANG list

Bryan Maloney wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, Robert J. Petry wrote:
>
> > The idea is to get the customer saying yes, yes, yes, this is good, yes I
> > would like that, and while they are saying yes, instead of no, slip in an "ok
> > I'll write you up an order, ok?" Yes, the customers says before he realizes
> > what has happened. At least, that's what all the sales classes, courses,
> > books, articles, etc. teach. It's called "sales technique".
>
> It never works on me.  I start with "I refuse to buy your product until
> and unless it meets the following criteria"--and then I don't buy until
> it does.  All the sales reps that target our research group get sent to
> swim with the Shark named Bryan...
No one in sales claims its perfect. And, no salesman I know ever makes a sale to
every client he talks to. But, without using these techniques their sales fall
dramatically. Secondly, you just gave me the clue in your statement of how to sell
you, and I would wager you have bought things thinking you had solely made the
decision yourself. Your clue is the statement in " "'x above. A salesman loves to
see words like that. I always did. So, now I know what to go out and find for you.
And, here's the rest of it. IF I am a "captive" salesman and not an independant,
then I will tell other salesmen about you, and what you are looking for. And,
depending on the relationship between you, the buyer, and me the salesman, you may
never know I referred that person to you that you finally bought from. It's called
networking. Experienced salesmen would love Bryan. Newbies wouldn't.

> > > And when I point out the flaws in a product to a salesman, he takes note,
> > > and sometimes the product has been changed to suit.
> >
> > Of course, he wants your money so he can stick some commission in his pocket.
> > That actually is his job, to agree with the customer and make changes where
> > possible, so the customer will buy. If the changes can't be made, the salesman
> > promises to do all he can. That's fair for now isn't it Mr. Jones? Good, may I
> > write the order for you then? Excellent, what is your middle initial?....
>
> I have a set of criteria.  If the product does not meet the criteria, I
> will not buy it.  If needs be, I will MAKE the damned thing myself (and I
> have, since sometimes homemade reagents and equipment work better than
> anything on the market).  Some salesmen keep coming back, some talk to me
> once and never return.  There are some lab supply companies that I can
> tell have just hired a new sales staff.  It's the first, last, and only
> time I see the rep.  He pitches a product, I ask for specifics, I give my
> counter-specifics and say there will be no purchase of anything that does
> not meet our research needs.  I never see nor hear from sales rep again.
Usually a newbie. But, besides sales techniques, repetition is also important.
Selling is a rough job, and most salesmen quit after the first no. That's why they
don't return to you, you send them to Bryan. However, all research ever done shows
that sales usually occur ONLY after the fifth to sixth call back.

> Now, there are companies that have come out with new products and
> distributors that have gone out and found what we want.  They get our
> money, and the others don't.  In choosing lab supplies, I am 100%
> goal-oriented, why should I be different in choosing an auxlang?
That's because they are independent enough they can do that. And, because you gave
them the clue of how to sell to you as mentioned above. They are good salesmen. They
find what you want, do everthing they can to help you get it, and you put money in
their pocket. This goes right along with what I was presenting in the first post.

> > positive input and honest questions? Versus, that won't work, it doesn't suit
> > my perspective, or people won't accept it, it's too passive, too eurocentric,
>
> I've never claimed that anything will or won't work in an IAL.  However,
> I will still say that IALers who I have seen trying to convert me do not
> do so in any rational fashion.
I hope you don't think my response was specifically to you. It was only a response
to the topic, not to a specific person. And, I don't understand your sentence
beginning with "However...fashion." Either you are speaking individually to an IALer
who is trying to convert you, or you are taking anyone's post presenting their IAL
as a specific pitch to you. Everyone is trying to SELL their ideas. You are trying
to sell me yours in responding to my post on salesman ship. That is selling is it
not? Selling of an idea. We all do this, so what is wrong with it? I personally see
absolutely nothing wrong with it. And, could not we construe your response as a
"fanatical" attempt to convert me to your way of thinking on this thread?

> > is an opposite side to that too. My idea is better than your idea so I can't
>
> Since I don't work on IAL, I don't have that perspective.
>
> > Or, are they? Exceptions in language grammar, etc. are sometimes necessary
> > because of the nature of the function of the human brain. That's why one now
>
> Necessary?  Indeed, but why presume that an IAL is necessary at all?
Why presume it isn't? You just saw a recent post of someone wanting to translate a
project into Spanish, French, German, etc. The time and cost to do that if done
professionally is beyond my pocketbook. But, one simple translation that all of
those folks could read and understand, I think I could afford the time and cost to
do. Will that convince anyone? It's hard to say. It is a known fact that the literal
automatic response of most people, without even thinking what they are doing is, no,
I'm not interested. How often have any of you ever said that to a salesman? That is
a typical response that we use, without even being taught to use it. It's how the
human mind works. The first response is almost always no. Second response, no.
Third, no. Fourth, no. Fifth, ummm, well maybe. Sixth-? Ok, just this one time.
After that final buy, then repetitive buying will occur based on how good the
product, language, etc. performs for the person who just bought. A good salesman
then will do everything possible to make the sale a beneficial one to his customer,
as he wants that one time customer to become a fulltime client.

> Furthermore, why do it with religious fervor, claiming that anybody not
> intersted in the IAL has some kind of selfish agenda or is an ignorant
> git?  I've seen plenty of that in my day.
Because, nothing is achieved without it. You certainly have some of it for the
things that are a success in your life, your company, your family, your hobbies.
And, besides, people won't listen to someone on the opposite extreme either. There
are three kinds of people in the world it is said.
1. Those that make things happen. The "fanatics".
2. Those that watch what happens. The masses?
3. Those that wonder what happened. (I know some of these folks. Don't we all?)

And, those not interested in IAL's are not selfish or ignorant, at least not in the
bad use of the term. But, they are ignorant in the sense that for what ever reason
they have, they "ignore" the value of an IAL in the proper circumstances.

Al l sue,
Bob, x+