Re: Degrees of volition in active languages (was Re: Chevraqis:asketch)

From: "Mangiat"

> Italian is one of the few languages I know to use articles even with nouns
> already determinated by possessives:
>
> 'il mio libro' - 'my book'
> 'la mia casa' - 'my house' (here there is an exception: you can say 'casa
> mia' as well)
> Another exception is with kinship terms: 'mio papà, mia mamma' - 'my
daddy,
> my mummy', but in my dialect you have articles even with those 'ul mè pa,
la
> mè ma'
>
> BTW, I, too, think Greek 'So:krate:s' is ungrammatical. I have never found
a
> Greek proper name without the article. Well, I think Greek uses a lot
> articles. Indeed I've never studied all its declension patterns, you can
> work well even if you remember the declension of 'ho, he, tò'.
>
> Luca
Portuguese does it (with a similar exception on kinship, but also with
"este" and numerals). Hungarian also does it (there may be exceptions but
I'm not so familiar; I don't think kinship counts as one, though: "A
feleségemet várom.", "I'm waiting for my wife."; "Mi az Atyánk, ki vagy a
mennyekben...", "Our Father, which art in Heaven...". And, of course,
Géarthnuns does it, no exceptions, since all common nouns must be marked
with some sort of article: chí gefröls sítel, my book, cha maralans síten,
my mother. One can replace the definite article with an indefinite article
to get "a ___ of mine", but I don't really consider this an exception: sí
gefröls sítel, a book of mine, sau zhömauíörs síter, a friend of mine. You
could also dump the possessive adjective in any of these examples and use
the genitive of "I", though it adds a rather formal and/or poetic air: chí
gefröls sís, my book, sau zhömauíörs sís, a friend of mine.

As for definite articles with names (proper nouns), I opted against it for
Géarthnuns. Normally, definite articles do not go with names. It is,
however, used when there is a title with the name, as this is considered by
the Géarthçins to be a form of apposition. In "real" apposition, the
definite article *is* used but it *follows* the noun so that the two apposed
nouns are standing next to one another (though usually separated by a
comma): Wamba, the fool; Wambaths, rhabaks chü; the poet Burns, Burns öls
chí. So, too, with titles, even in direct address: President Clinton,
Clintön Alüdlers chau; Queen Elizabeth, Elizabeths Öns cha; Mr. Smith, Smith
Abs chö. In a similar vein (to the Géarthçins mind, at least), if the name
is modified by adjectives in English, it takes a substantive in Géarthnuns
followed by the definite article. Cue David Letterman introducing his next
guest: "the lovely Sharon Stone", Stone Sharauns techetnekens cha. Actually,
now that I see it front of me on the screen, the article isn't going with
the name at all, it's going with the apposed noun or substantive adjective
(which is, in fact, a noun). If the name itself is the apposed noun, it
takes no article: Say Dave wants to build a little anticipation, "the
lovely,...the talented,...Sharon Stone"; "cha techetnekens,...cha
bwelens,...Stone Sharauns. No article. Oh well, never mind ;)

Kou