On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:41:04 -0500, Sally Caves <scaves@...>
wrote:
>LUNATIC SURVEY 2005, by Sally Caves
>
>There are four parts (A through D) of about 22-24 questions each. These
>surveys have aided me in my ongoing research on conlanging, but they are
>also for YOU.
>
>*For the few that have requested it, I've put asterisks by the questions
>that are new to this third installment of the "Lunatic Survey," first
>posted in 1998, in honor of Marina Yaguello's dismissive title, Fous du
>langage, translated by Catherine Slater as "Lunatic Lovers of Language."
>BEAR IN MIND, though, that I've started from scratch, and many of
>my "old" questions are recast in new ways.
>
>You need not answer every question; if you do, please keep most of them
>fairly brief, although I don't want to deny you a chance to effuse! I
>would like all the questions answered for A, 1-17, though, even if you
>took the survey in 2003.
>
>Please read them over before responding, so you know what lies ahead.
>
>You may respond publically or privately to me at scaves@frontiernet.net.
>I posted this publically, though, because I think you all like seeing
>other people's responses, and it was requested. However, If you respond
>to any of the public responses, PLEASE CHANGE THE HEADER!!! Firrimby. :)
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>A. PROFESSION, DEMOGRAPHICS, INCLINATION:
>
>1. Who are you, and what is the name of your invented language or
>languages? Pseudonyms allowed. (Are you using one? asked "Sally Caves")
I am Rob Haden. My current (and, by far, best-developed) conlang is
Thalassan.
>*2. Are you new to the Lunatic Survey or have you filled out a version of
>this survey before?
I am new to this survey.
>3. Do you have a website for you language/world(s)? If so, please list
>the URL address.
Not yet, but perhaps soon.
>4. What is your email address? name at hostsite dot whatever.
magwich78@yahoo.com.
>5. What is your age? (vague answers allowed, but it is an important
>demographic)
21.
>6. What is your gender?
Male.
>7. What is your nationality? Where do you live now?
American; Auburn, Alabama.
>8. What is your native language?
American English.
>9. What natural languages foreign to you have you studied or do you speak?
I studied Spanish for 3 years in high school and Latin for a semester in
college. However, I've read sketches and grammatical descriptions of
many, many other languages.
>10. What is your level of education? i.e., your highest degree achieved
>or sought?
I plan to graduate with a B.S. in Computer Science in May.
>11. What is your profession? Are you a professional linguist? If so, what
>also makes you a conlanger?
College student. :)
>13. If you are a student, what is your major or your area of study?
Computer science.
>14. How long have you been developing your invented language(s)?
I started Thalassan this past spring or summer.
>15. At what age did you first start inventing a language? Can you briefly
>describe your early efforts?
I remember trying to develop a conlang when I was a sophomore in high
school (15 or 16). It was an attempt to "fix" English according to my
subjective tastes. Obviously, it didn't last long. :P
>16. What drew you to start inventing a language and/or constructed world?
>What was the inspiration?
After the first attempt mentioned above, I did not start conlanging again
until I was a freshman in college. At first, I looked into it simply from
curiosity, and then tried toying with a conlang of my own.
>17. Did you start inventing before you had heard of the list or after?
>Before you had heard of Esperanto or Tolkien? (I name the two most common
>inspirations)
Shortly before I heard of the list, I believe, but after I had heard of
Esperanto and Tolkien. Neither of those, however, were inspirations for
me.
>18. Tolkien calls it a "shy art" and a "secret vice"; but that was before
>the Internet. How secret do you keep it from others outside this list for
>much the same reasons?
I don't keep it secret, but I do not talk about it to others since they
don't ask. :P
>19. Yaguello has called it "pathological," influenced, unfortunately, by
>a lot of psychiatric writings such as _Le Schizo et la langue_. To what
>extent have you encountered such reactions by outsiders you had taken
>into your confidence?
I've encountered no such reactions, personally.
>*20. Do you consider it nerdy to be doing this? This is a term that gets
>tossed around a lot. Or actually sophisticated? Do you need to get a
>life, or is this your life? What is a life?
Whether it's "nerdy" or not really deals with what other people think, and
I don't much care what they think about it. :P It's just a hobby of mine.
>21. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and musical
>ability. Are you musically inclined? Do you sing and/or play a musical
>instrument? Do you compose music?
I'd say I'm musically inclined. I play the guitar and I sing (but only to
an audience of one, haha).
>22. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and mathematical
>ability. Are you mathematically inclined or inclined towards computing in
>any way?
Given my major, I'd say I'm inclined towards computing. :) I enjoy
computer programming.
>23. What other passions do you pursue that give you creative pleasure?
>(painting, drawing, sculpting, calligraphy, model-building, novel or
>story-writing, role-playing games, map-making, book-making, poetry, web-
>designing, star-gazing or other?)
I used to draw (including maps), but not so much anymore.
>B. FEATURES OF YOUR INVENTION
>
>1. Pick the best term for the invented language you are currently
>invested in: auxlang, artlang, engelang, loglang, lostlang, philosophical
>language, or "other." etc.
Thalassan can be considered both an artlang and a lostlang, I think.
>2. Is your conlang a priori (devised from scratch) or a posteriori (based
>on an existing natural language or drawing from a language class such as
>Semitic)?
It is intended to be a "cousin" to Indo-European and Uralic, so it is more
or less a posteriori.
>4. Do you have a script for your conlang? What is it called? Could you
>provide me at a later date with a sample of it? Is it on
>Langmaker's "neography" site?
No.
>5. Briefly describe the outlines of your invented language (syntactical
>structure--VO, OV, etc.; class or type--analytic, synthetic,
>agglutinating, incorporative, accusative, ergative, active, trigger,
>other, combinations, etc.), noting what you have done with it that is
>innovative in your opinion.
Syntactic structure: largely free, but canonically SOV.
Type: agglutinating accusative.
>7. How extensive would you say your invented language is, now? How big
>the vocabulary? Do you provide a vocabulary list or taxonomy on your
>website if you have one?
It has not yet been a year since I started on it, so it's not very
extensive yet. However, I was able to enter it in the latest relay. :)
>8. How do you build vocabulary? Some people pull words out of the air;
>others build up a base of root words and affixes. Many do both.
I tend to combine root words and affixes.
>3. Does a constructed world accompany your invention(s)? What is it
>called?
Not really, but the speakers of Thalassan are (some of) the "Old
Europeans" of Marija Gimbutas's theories.
>*9. Has your language and conworld ever served in a role-playing game or
a world shared by other conlangers?
Nope.
>*10. Briefly describe your conculture (is it within the bounds of this
>world? on another world, etc.?)
See above.
>*11. Are the beings who speak your invented language human or alien? If
>alien, what features have you given the language to make it alien or how
>have you restricted or expanded its phonology? vocabulary?
Human.
>12. What do you write in it? Poems? chants? lullabyes? prayers? history?
>stories? recipes? Are any of these exhibited on your website?
I haven't written much of anything yet, but I'd like to write prose in it
at some point.
>13. Can you speak your conlang? Are you fluent in it? Is this a goal for
>you? Have you tried to teach it to an intimate? a companion animal? :)
Unfortunately, I can't really speak Thalassan yet, but I would like to.
>14. Have you made any soundbytes of your language? Could you provide me
>at a later date with a sample of them?
Nope, but perhaps sometime I will.
>*15. If you use Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is your writing
>system? In other words, do you use unconventional letters or letter
>combinations to represent sounds? Why or why not? I'm thinking, of
>course, of Etabnannery, for those who remember it.
The writing system is reasonably phonetic. Some single sounds are
represented with two characters, e.g. |kh| for /k_h/ and |t'| for /t_>/.
>16. How many of you sing in your language and have invented songs for
>that purpose?
Not me.
>*17. How many of you, for entertainment or any other reason, resort to
>gibberish? (This is in response to Adrian Morgan's question in December).
>Does it give you ideas for conlanging? (Have you ever fooled anyone?) How
>many of you have sung gibberish?
Not me.
>*18. What on-line games do you play? (or devise?) Translations, Babel-
>text, Relays, etc.
I've participated in the latest conlang relay. Hopefully I'll get the
Babel text translated soon.
>19. Which do you prefer doing: devising phonology? script? structure?
>building vocabulary?
Structure, phonology, and vocabulary, in that order. I'm terribly slow at
devising vocabulary. I don't worry about scripts at all.
>20. Do you start and stop several different conlangs, or do you tend to
>stick with one and develop it over years?
I tend to stick with one but sometimes engage in "diversions" on smaller,
less serious projects.
>21. What do you think makes a "complete" conlang, if a conlang can attain
>completion? What are your goals for completion? When do you grow "tired"
>of your conlang, or don't you?
I'd say there's no such thing as a complete conlang, as there's no such
thing as a complete natlang. However, sometimes I grow "tired" of my
conlang when I seem to reach a stumbling-block.
>*22. Which came first: the conlang or the conworld?
The conlang.
>C. PHILOSOPHY AND AESTHETIC:
>
>1. What aesthetic features do you value in inventing language? Be
specific as to phonology, structure, script, etc.
I mostly value phonological and phonotactic aesthetic features. In other
words, I like making languages that "sound right" to me. :)
>2. What commonly applied aesthetics have you ever tried to avoid in your
>invention? This has been an oft debated question, especially when it
>comes to Tolkien.
I haven't tried to avoid any aesthetics; I just follow my own.
>3. Is difficulty or obscurity a goal in inventing a language?
Not for me.
>4. Is efficiency a goal in inventing a language? This question needn't
>cancel out the previous one.
I guess it depends on what's meant by "efficiency". :P
>5. How natural do you wish to make it, or is that a concern? Or rather,
>how unnatural do you wish to make it?
As natural as possible, really.
>6. Can conlanging be sexy? sensual? obsessing? how does it heal or harm
>you?
None of the above, really. Just a pastime for me.
>*7. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of obscenities?
No obscenities (yet). :))
>8. Can it be mystical? To what extent does conlanging fulfill a spiritual
>purpose for you? Or a magical one? Did it ever start out that way?
No spiritual purpose, really.
>9. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of magical,
religious, or incantatory terms?
Not yet, but it'd be interesting to sketch out the religion and/or
philosophy of the Thalassan-speakers.
>*10. How many of you have striven to invent words that express novel
>ideas, or are not expressed in any natural language that you know?
Not so far.
>11. Name a few of the words in your language(s) that you are most pleased
>with and are the most original to you.
phavan 'fire' (cf. IE *pexwr) vs.
phauni 'firey' (< *phaw-an-i)
vat'an 'water' (cf. IE *wodr) vs.
vat'ni 'watery' (< *vat'-an-i)
visar 'river' (cf. IE *weis- 'flow')
>12. How do you sense that a word is "right" for its meaning? How much do
>you labor at fitting a sound to its sense? Or don't you care?
It's often very difficult for me to reach a final decision on the "right"
soundshape for a word. Normally I rely on my intuition.
>*13. Do you ever rely on a software program to build vocabulary? Do those
>who don't think that's cheating? :)
I've tried to use software before and it's never given me results that
I've liked.
>*14. Is conlang a hobby, a craft, or an art in your mind? This has been
>hotly debated, so the question is not as weird as it seems. Can
>conlanging be considered an art? Why or why not?
Those words mean more or less the same thing, to me.
>*15. If it is, who do you think are its consumers?
The curious. :D
>*16. This question is directed as well at any auxlangers on the list. Is
>it an art, a political tool, both? And who do you think could be its
>consumers?
Anything one wants it to be, really.
>*17. There has been some exciting talk recently (and over the years)
>about what a conlang is or is not. If you could pick a metaphor or write
>a descriptive phrase defining "conlang," what would that be?
A language that is the result of deliberate cognitive processes.
>*18. Why or why not would you eschew the metaphors "miniature"
>or "model"?
I'd eschew "miniature", because a conlang can (at least theoretically) be
as extensive as any natlang.
>*19. Is a conlang more like a glimpse of something lifesize? (Irina's
>suggestion in 2001)
It can be, but not necessarily.
>*20. There has been some invigorating discussion lately about what a
>conlang can do that most natural languages don't (such as produce OSV
>structure, or eradicate verbs) What experiments have you made with your
>artlang(s) along these lines?
None. I'm concerned with naturalistic conlanging.
>*21 What do you think distinguishes a conlang from a natural language,
>if you think so at all? What would it take for a linguist to be fooled
>into thinking a conlang was a natural language?
Natural languages evolve through impersonal processes. Conlangs evolve by
concerted effort in the mind(s) of one or more people.
>*22. How much do you study other languages in order to discover what is
>natural in language? Or to discover how you can stretch the boundaries of
>language to make it do things that are unnatural?
I've studied the structures of many natural languages and have read
Greenberg's "universals".
>*23. Can such a language function?
I don't know.
>*24. There has been quite a bit of fascinating debate about the relevance
>of conlanging to linguistic study. We all know that linguistics can aid
>conlangers, but in what ways can conlangers aid linguists? Or does it
>matter?
I think it can help determine what really is possible for the human mind
to process.
>D. THE LISTSERV
>
>1. How did you first hear of this list?
Probably via one of my early Yahoo searches. :)
>2. How long have you been on this listserv or on other related listservs?
>Continuously? Infrequently? Off and on? More off than on and vice versa?
I've been on this list since 2001 or 2002 (freshman year, at any rate).
>*3. What is the appeal of being on a listserv and contributing to it? Do
>you think you contribute moderately or excessively, or not enough? Do you
>tend to lurk ?
It's interesting to see what others say. I've tended to lurk lately,
though.
>*4. For those of you who remember its inception, how has it changed over
>the past decade?
Can't say, as I wasn't here from its inception.
>*5. How helpful has the list been in developing your language? In
>learning linguistic information?
I'd say it's definitely been helpful.
>6. What books have you consulted? On your own, or because you heard of
>them on the list?
Hard to list offhand, mostly books on languages that are in my
university's library.
>*7. Do you peruse the websites of other conlangers?
Yes, sometimes. Not so much lately, though.
>*8. Do you sense that people on this list are interested in your conlang
>and give you feedback on it?
Sometimes, though I have not posted many messages about my conlang lately.
>9. Have you ever set out to learn at least a little bit of someone's
>conlang, if only a word or two, or a phrase?
Nah, not really.
>*10. Do you peruse Jeffrey Henning's Langmaker.com site?
Sometimes.
>*11. What on-line techniques do you use to showcase your conlang, such as
>Audacity or other sound programs, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Fontography,
>and so forth? Did you hear of them on the list?
None.
>12. Have you ever tried to introduce a friend to the list?
Nope.
>13. Do you know of anyone who does this kind of thing but who has never
>heard of the list?
Nope.
>*14. What other lists do you frequent related to conlanging?
I frequent some historical linguistics lists, namely Cybalist and
Nostratic-L (in YahooGroups).
>*15. What do you think will be the future of the list? I see it giving
>birth to alternate lists like Conworld, Lostlanguages, Romlang, etc. What
>improves the present list and its helpfulness or entertainment value?
Honestly, I'm not sure what the future of this list will be.
>*16. What Internet technology would you most like to see developed that
>would aid you in showcasing your language(s)?
I'd like to see better encoding for webpages.
>*17. What lists like conlang exist in other cultures and languages that
>you know of?
None, that I know of.
>*18. There has been some terrific talk about CONLANG as a community. And
>yet so many of us seem to want the world to know of it and respect it. Is
>the CONLANG community enough?
Perhaps. I really don't know.
>*19. In my 2000 on-line article (
http://journal.media-
>culture.org.au/0003/languages.php) I suggested that the Internet "may
>provide a site that, with the impetus of competition and showmanship,
>encourages inutile and obsessive activity"; I was quoting Jeff Salamon's
>article "Revenge of the Fanboys." Village Voice 13 Sep., 1994. He wrote
>that over ten years ago. Do outsiders still entertain such notions, do
>you think, about listservs like this one? Do you? To what extent has the
>list increased obsessive development in you? Would you be inventing as
>furiously as you are without the list or knowledge of other inventors?
>20. If asked whether it is not better to turn your linguistic talents to
>the learning and speaking of natural languages (a common response I've
>met with and aimed at criticizing introversion or solipsism), how would
>you answer?
I'd answer that I do what I like to do. It's for me to decide, not others.
>*21. In Elizabethan times there were the inkhorn neologisms. There were
>ciphers and pasigraphies. Today there is conlanging. Do you think the
>contemporary world is more open to language innovation or more closed?
I'd say it's more open.
>*22. What would Tolkien have done with such a community? He writes in "A
>Secret Vice" that language inventors "hardly ever show their works to one
>another, so none of them know who are the geniuses at the game, or who
>are the splendid 'primitives'." He suggests that perhaps in a later time
>language invention will become respectable, and such things can be
>exhibited. Have we reached that time?
If we haven't, the time may be close at hand.
I do see a future where there are many different "designer communities".
Some of these communities may speak conlangs. :)
>*23. Is there a danger that over-exposure can make conlanging "banal"? To
>what extent is it exciting because it is a) considered
>disreputable, "corny" or "mad," or b) largely unknown to the world? Does
>it have a fizzle-out date? In other words, is it just a fad, or is it a
>natural human inclination that will stand the test of time?
I don't know whether it's a fad or not. And personally, I don't care. :P
It's not a fad for me, I don't think.
>Finally, may I have your permission to use any of this material of yours
>for my academic work on conlanging? First name? last name? pseudonym?
>anonymous?
Certainly, under this name.
- Rob