Re: LUNATIC SURVEY: 2005

# Subject:
# LUNATIC SURVEY: 2005
# From:
# Sally Caves <scaves@...>
# Date:
# Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:41:04 -0500
# To:
# CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU



# LUNATIC SURVEY 2005, by Sally Caves

# A. PROFESSION, DEMOGRAPHICS, INCLINATION:
#
# 1. Who are you, and what is the name of your invented
# language or languages? Pseudonyms allowed. (Are you using
# one? asked "Sally Caves")

Real name: Benct Philip (Jung) Jonsson
Religious name: Ngag.dBang.sByin.pa ['NA:B_oAN 'dz\i~ba]
Alias: BP, Bengan
Pseudonym: Melroch 'Aestan -- strictly only "Philip Benct" in
Sindarin, one of Tolkien's languages.

# *2. Are you new to the Lunatic Survey or have you filled out
# a version of this survey before?

I think I started filling one out.  Not sure I completed it.

# 3. Do you have a website for you language/world(s)? If so,
# please list the URL address.

Most complete and woefully incomplete (mostly conculture notes):
<http://melroch.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Myconlangs>

# 4. What is your email address? name at hostsite dot
# whatever.

melroch at melroch dot se

# 5. What is your age? (vague answers allowed, but it is an
# important demographic)

38

# 6. What is your gender?

Male

# 7. What is your nationality?  Where do you live now?

Swedish (with ancestors from Germany/Poland, Ukraine and Norway besides
Sweden)
Live in Gothenburg, Sweden

# 8. What is your native language?

Swedish and German, tho the German has fallen off rather badly.

# 9. What natural languages foreign to you have you studied or
# do you speak?

English (worked as English-to-Swedish translator)
French (très mauvais, don't speak)
Italian (speak a little)
Icelandic (used to be quite fluent)
Latin
Sanskrit
Tibetan (classical language)
Can bend my Swedish towards Norwegian and Danish at need.
Looked at several other languages, most successfully at Finnish.

# 10. What is your level of education? i.e., your highest
# degree achieved or sought?

Sought BA, had to stop for health reasons, am restarting.

# 11. What is your profession? Are you a professional
# linguist? If so, what also makes you a conlanger?

Have studied Scandinavian languages and Comparative
Indo-European Philology.  Am a general language freak
since early on, which also makes me a conlanger.
Edgar Rice Burroughs (sic!) and Tolkien played an early
role, as did an Esperantist Latin teacher (the poor man
also tried to teach me French, but that was my father's
favorite language... :)

# 13. If you are a student, what is your major or your area of
# study?

Now General Linguistics

# 14. How long have you been developing your invented
# language(s)?

My oldest currently active project is Sohlob, which is
about five years old.  Many languages preceded it since
my early-to mid teens, with a long hiatus in my twenties.


# 15. At what age did you first start inventing a language?
# Can you briefly describe your early efforts?

C:a 15.  Auxlangish stuff trying to improve on Esperanto.
Invented random con-vocabularies before that from c:a 10 y:o
along with a conculture.

# 16. What drew you to start inventing a language and/or
# constructed world? What was the inspiration?

Two-pronged inspiration from Tolkien and Rice Burroughs on
the one hand, Esperanto and the German translation of
Bodmer's "The loom of language" on the other.

# 17. Did you start inventing before you had heard of the list
# or after? Before you had heard of Esperanto or Tolkien? (I
# name the two most common inspirations)

Before the list.  Before Tolkien and Esperanto (although they
were major boosts), but after Rice Burroughs...

# 18. Tolkien calls it a "shy art" and a "secret vice"; but
# that was before the Internet. How secret do you keep it from
# others outside this list for much the same reasons?

I mostly don't talk about it because other people are
uninterested or nonunderstanding.  I like to believe I'm
past the age of shyness, but am not sure how I would
react if hostilly approached by professional linguists.

# 19. Yaguello has called it "pathological," influenced,
# unfortunately, by a lot of psychiatric writings such as _Le
# Schizo et la langue_. To what extent have you encountered
# such reactions by outsiders you had taken into your
# confidence?

One very young and snobbish linguistic student.  That makes
it nil.  My S.O. calls it childish when she thinks I spend
too much time with it.

# *20. Do you consider it nerdy to be doing this? This is a
# term that gets tossed around a lot. Or actually
# sophisticated? Do you need to get a life, or is this your
# life? What is a life?

It is nerdy.  I need to get a life, not because of this but
because I'm spending too much time as a cerebral palsy patient
-- i.e. my disability keeps me from doing stuff away from home.
Conlanging is a perfectly valid *part* of a good life.

# 21. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and
# musical ability. Are you musically inclined? Do you sing
# and/or play a musical instrument? Do you compose music?

Not at all.  I think the part of my brain where music should
reside got mysteriously linked to language production when I
was brain injured as an infant.

# 22. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and
# mathematical ability. Are you mathematically inclined or
# inclined towards computing in any way?

Not at all.  Suffer from dyscalculia, in fact!

# 23. What other passions do you pursue that give you creative
# pleasure?
# (painting/drawing -- used to when my hands were better
# sculpting -- sometime at school, would like to.
# calligraphy -- used to when my hands were better
# model- building -- used to as a child
# novel or story-writing -- yes.  Too much of a perfectionist.
# role-playing games -- used to in my teens
# map- making -- used to in my teens
# book-making -- sometime.  My longest work-practice between school
	and university was at a bindery!
# poetry -- when I was studying Old Icelandic I tried, otherwise
	only when I was 18 and unhappily in love.
# web-designing  -- yes
# star-gazing -- as a child
# other?)  -- font designing


# B. FEATURES OF YOUR INVENTION

# 1. Pick the best term for the invented language you are
# currently invested in: auxlang, artlang, engelang, loglang,
# lostlang, philosophical language, or "other." etc.

artlang and lostlang and romlangs/what-if-langs

# 2. Is your conlang a priori (devised from scratch) or a
# posteriori (based on an existing natural language or drawing
# from a language class such as Semitic)?

Both a-priori langs (Sohlob and Mærik) and a-posteriori ones
(Slvanjec and Baazraamani)

# 4. Do you have a script for your conlang? What is it called?

Serq Sohlob "Sohlob writing"

# Could you provide me at a later date with a sample of it?

<http://melroch.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Main/SohlobWriting>

# Is it on Langmaker's "neography" site?

No.

# 5. Briefly describe the outlines of your invented language
# (syntactical structure--VO, OV, etc.; class or type--
# analytic, synthetic, agglutinating, incorporative,
# accusative, ergative, active, trigger, other, combinations,
# etc.), noting what you have done with it that is innovative
# in your opinion.

Sohlob:  SOV, ergative/active, agglutinating.
Mærik: VSO, accusative, synthetic.
Slvanjec: Latin-Slavic hybrid
Baazraamani: Latin-Persian hybrid

# 7. How extensive would you say your invented language is,
# now? How big the vocabulary? Do you provide a vocabulary
# list or taxonomy on your website if you have one?

Sohlob has a fairly large vocabulary (1200 words) and
historical phonology, with three well-developed, one
somewhat developed and one poorly developed dialect.
I keep changing the grammar too much.

Mærik has about 800 words and a growing grammar.

Slvanjec has a well-developed historical phonology
which is due for some revision, a vocab of about 400 words
and a working grammar.

Baazraamani basically *is* an historical phonology.

# 8. How do you build vocabulary? Some people pull words out
# of the air; others build up a base of root words and
# affixes. Many do both.

I do both for Sohlob, having used a computer program
to help me with the pulling out of thin air.

For Mærik I created root words by letting a computer
program produce gibberish words similar to Old Swedish.

For Slvanjec and Baazraamani the vocabulary is derived from
Latin/Romance.

# 3. Does a constructed world accompany your invention(s)?
# What is it called?

In the case of Sohlob yes.  The land where Sohlob is
spoken is called Sohlodar -- place of the Sohl, and the
Sohl is a great lake in that land.

Slvanjec is part of Ill Bethisad, and Baazraamani aspires to be.
<http://ib.frath.net/w/Main_Page>

# *9. Has your language and conworld ever served in a role-
# playing game or a world shared by other conlangers?

I have used now defunct languages for naming in fiction,
and Sohlob is destined to fulfil that function.

Ill Bethisad *is* a shared world.

# *10. Briefly describe your conculture (is it within the
# bounds of this world? on another world, etc.?)

Sohlob: it is another world, but very similar to ours.  I'm
not sure the speakers are human.

My other languages are spoken by humans on Earth in
alternate timelines.

# *11. Are the beings who speak your invented language human
# or alien? If alien, what features have you given the
# language to make it alien or how have you restricted or
# expanded its phonology? vocabulary?

As for the Sohlosjan I'm as I said not sure.  It hasn't really
influenced the language.  I did a radically (or so I thought)
alien language once.

# 12. What do you write in it? Poems? chants? lullabyes?
# prayers? history? stories? recipes? Are any of these
# exhibited on your website?

Slvanjec has been used for some short texts, as have
now defunct languages of mine.  I hope one day to write
the poems, chants, prayers, history and stories of the
Sohlosjan!

# 13. Can you speak your conlang?

No.

# Are you fluent in it?

No.

# Is this a goal for you?

I aspire to writing fluency.

# Have you tried to teach it to an intimate?

I and Jan van Steenbergen have toyed with writing to one
another in Slvanjec and Wenedyk respectively.

I would love if someone would like to learn my langs


# 14. Have you made any soundbytes of your language?

No.

# Could you provide me at a later date with a sample of them?

Maybe.  Will have to ask my stepson if it is possible to record on
our computer!

# *15. If you use Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is
# your writing system? In other words, do you use
# unconventional letters or letter combinations to represent
# sounds? Why or why not? I’m thinking, of course, of
# Etabnannery, for those who remember it.

The romanization of Sohlob is pretty phonemic, as is the
romanization of Baazraamani.  The Arabic script for
Baazraamani is as phonemic as an Arabic-based script
usually is.  The orthography of Slvanjec is historical-phonemic.
The writing of Mærik is roman but irregular, as you would
expect of medieval writing. Thus no Etabnannery.

# 16. How many of you sing in your language and have invented
# songs for that purpose?

No.

# *17. How many of you, for entertainment or any other reason,
# resort to gibberish? (This is in response to Adrian Morgan’s
# question in December). Does it give you ideas for
# conlanging? (Have you ever fooled anyone?) How many of you
# have sung gibberish?

No, except to the extent computer-generated vocab is gibberish! :)

# *18. What on-line games do you play? (or devise?)
# Translations, Babel-text, Relays, etc.

I did one relay (with Slvanjec)

# 19. Which do you prefer doing: devising phonology? script?
# structure? building vocabulary?

Phonology.

# 20. Do you start and stop several different conlangs, or do
# you tend to stick with one and develop it over years?

Both.

# 21. What do you think makes a "complete" conlang, if a
# conlang can attain completion? What are your goals for
# completion? When do you grow "tired" of your conlang, or
# don’t you?

I don't know.

# *22. Which came first: the conlang or the conworld?

Usually the language, but in a sense Sohlodar is the
continuation of the conworld of my boyhood.


# C. PHILOSOPHY AND AESTHETIC:
#
# 1. What aesthetic features do you value in inventing
# language? Be specific as to phonology, structure, script,
# etc.

I value all aspects, but especially historical depth, which
I sadly find lacking in most artlangs.  I also have a taste
for "exotic" structure.

# 2. What commonly applied aesthetics have you ever tried to
# avoid in your invention? This has been an oft debated
# question, especially when it comes to Tolkien.

Celticness.

# 3. Is difficulty or obscurity a goal in inventing a
# language?

No.  It comes by itself.

# 4. Is efficiency a goal in inventing a language? This
# question needn’t cancel out the previous one.

No.

# 5. How natural do you wish to make it, or is that a concern?
# Or rather, how unnatural do you wish to make it?

Very natural.

# 6. Can conlanging be sexy? sensual? obsessing? how does it
# heal or harm you?

It is obsessive and healing, and stealing time from studying...

# *7. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of
# obscenities?

No, though it would suit my concultures.

# 8. Can it be mystical? To what extent does conlanging
# fulfill a spiritual purpose for you? Or a magical one? Did
# it ever start out that way?

No.

# 9. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of
# magical, religious, or incantatory terms?

No, but that *should* be part of Sohlob

# *10. How many of you have striven to invent words that
# express novel ideas, or are not expressed in any natural
# language that you know?

Yes, in the past.

# 11. Name a few of the words in your language(s) that you are
# most pleased with and are the most original to you.

_Sohl_ [sQK].  When it means "spring, well" it comes from
*tyasryu, but when it means "ocean" it comes from *tyusra,
the verb for "enfold".  "City" is _hel_ in Sohlob, which is
no coincidence.

# 12. How do you sense that a word is "right" for its meaning?
# How much do you labor at fitting a sound to its sense? Or
# don’t you care?

A labor too much on that, have despaired and leave it to chance.

# *13. Do you ever rely on a software program to build
# vocabulary? Do those who don’t think that’s cheating? :)

Yes.  Not really cheating if you do some thinking about
the phonology and phonotactics and build that into the
program.

# *14. Is conlang a hobby, a craft, or an art in your mind?
# This has been hotly debated, so the question is not as weird
# as it seems. Can conlanging be considered an art? Why or why
# not?

All three.

# *15. If it is, who do you think are its consumers?

Fellow conlangers, obviously, tho I hope my fiction readers
will perceive and appreciate that I put work into the language.

# *16. This question is directed as well at any auxlangers on
# the list. Is it an art, a political tool, both? And who do
# you think could be its consumers?

I think auxlangs are a political tool gone amiss.

# *17. There has been some exciting talk recently (and over
# the years) about what a conlang is or is not. If you could
# pick a metaphor or write a descriptive phrase defining
# "conlang," what would that be?

Don't know

# *18. Why or why not would you eschew the metaphors
# "miniature" or "model"?

I would, because a conlang can be "bigger" than some
poorly attested dead languages, and may strive at being
a complete language.  I don't know if it can achieve that goal tho.

# *19. Is a conlang more like a glimpse of something lifesize?
# (Irina’s suggestion in 2001)

I think so.

# *20. There has been some invigorating discussion lately
# about what a conlang can do that most natural languages
# don’t (such as produce OSV structure, or eradicate verbs)
# What experiments have you made with your artlang(s) along
# these lines?

My alien language tried to derive everything from verbs.

# *21  What do you think distinguishes a conlang from a
# natural language, if you think so at all?  What would it
# take for a linguist to be fooled into thinking a conlang was
# a natural language?

Size and completeness.

# *22. How much do you study other languages in order to
# discover what is natural in language? Or to discover how you
# can stretch the boundaries of language to make it do things
# that are unnatural?

A lot.

# *23. Can such a language function?

Don't know

# *24. There has been quite a bit of fascinating debate about
# the relevance of conlanging to linguistic study. We all know
# that linguistics can aid conlangers, but in what ways can
# conlangers aid linguists? Or does it matter?

Don't know.

# D. THE LISTSERV

# 1. How did you first hear of this list?

By browsing around the 'net for constructed languages.

# 2. How long have you been on this listserv or on other
# related listservs? Continuously? Infrequently? Off and on?
# More off than on and vice versa?

Since I went online.  I think about 8-9 years.
Continuously with some breaks, one long (was in hospital)

# *3. What is the appeal of being on a listserv and
# contributing to it? Do you think you contribute moderately
# or excessively, or not enough? Do you tend to lurk ?

Not enough.  Am a semi-lurker these days.  The appeal is
not to feel that I'm a loner or a lunatic! ;)

# *4. For those of you who remember its inception, how has it
# changed over the past decade?

The esperantists are thankfully gone.

# *5. How helpful has the list been in developing your
# language? In learning linguistic information?

It made me more daring in language design.

# 6. What books have you consulted? On your own, or because
# you heard of them on the list?

The list led me to "Describing Morphosyntax".
I read numerous books on my own.

# *7. Do you peruse the websites of other conlangers?

Not enough.

# *8. Do you sense that people on this list are interested in
# your conlang and give you feedback on it?

Sometimes.  I don't give enough feedback to them.

# 9. Have you ever set out to learn at least a little bit of
# someone’s conlang, if only a word or two, or a phrase?

Yes.

# *10. Do you peruse Jeffrey Henning’s Langmaker.com site?

Infrequently.

# *11. What on-line techniques do you use to showcase your
# conlang, such as Audacity or other sound programs,
# Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Fontography, and so forth? Did you
# hear of them on the list?

Web-site, wiki.

# 12. Have you ever tried to introduce a friend to the list?

Yes.  Failed.  The guy was a loglanger.

# 13. Do you know of anyone who does this kind of thing but
# who has never heard of the list?

No.

# *14. What other lists do you frequent related to conlanging?

The "workshop" offshoot lists.  Tolkien linguistics lists.

# *15. What do you think will be the future of the list? I see
# it giving birth to alternate lists like Conworld,
# Lostlanguages, Romlang, etc. What improves the present list
# and its helpfulness or entertainment value?

Don't know.

# *16. What Internet technology would you most like to see
# developed that would aid you in showcasing your language(s)?

maybe sound recording.

# *17. What lists like conlang exist in other cultures and
# languages that you know of?

n/a

# *18. There has been some terrific talk about CONLANG as a
# community. And yet so many of us seem to want the world to
# know of it and respect it. Is the CONLANG community enough?

Yes, though more and frequent real-life gettogethers
would be nice.

# *19. In my 2000 on-line article (
# http://journal.media-culture.org.au/0003/languages.php) I
# suggested that the Internet "may provide a site that, with
# the impetus of competition and showmanship, encourages
# inutile and obsessive activity"; I was quoting Jeff
# Salamon’s article "Revenge of the Fanboys." Village Voice 13
# Sep., 1994. He wrote that over ten years ago. Do outsiders
# still entertain such notions, do you think, about listservs
# like this one?

Yes.

# Do you?

No.

# To what extent has the list increased
# obsessive development in you?

some

# Would you be inventing as
# furiously as you are without the list or knowledge of other
# inventors?

Maybe not.

# 20. If asked whether it is not better to turn your
# linguistic talents to the learning and speaking of natural
# languages (a common response I’ve met with and aimed at
# criticizing introversion or solipsism), how would you
# answer?

That drawing and painting are still valid pursuits in
spite of photography!

# *21. In Elizabethan times there were the inkhorn neologisms.
# There were ciphers and pasigraphies. Today there is
# conlanging. Do you think the contemporary world is more open
# to language innovation or more closed?

More open to most "odd2 activities.  After all we don't
burn witches anymore.

# *22. What would Tolkien have done with such a community?

Hopefully enjoy it.

# He
# writes in "A Secret Vice" that language inventors "hardly
# ever show their works to one another, so none of them know
# who are the geniuses at the game, or who are the splendid
# ‘primitives’." He suggests that perhaps in a later time
# language invention will become respectable, and such things
# can be exhibited. Have we reached that time?

We are getting there.

# *23. Is there a danger that over-exposure can make
# conlanging "banal"? To what extent is it exciting because it
# is a) considered disreputable, "corny" or "mad," or b)
# largely unknown to the world? Does it have a fizzle-out
# date?  In other words, is it just a fad, or is it a natural
# human inclination that will stand the test of time?

  a natural human inclination that will stand the test of time.

  After all there were Hildegard and Balaibalan

# Finally, may I have your permission to use any of this
# material of yours for my academic work on conlanging? First
# name? last name? pseudonym? anonymous?

Everything but the email address!

#



# Thanks!



# Sally Caves scaves@frontiernet.net

--

/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se

         Solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant!
                                             (Tacitus)