Re: LUNATIC SURVEY: 2005
| From: | Kevin Athey <kevindeanathey@...> |
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| Date: | Friday, February 25, 2005, 22:59 |
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>A. PROFESSION, DEMOGRAPHICS, INCLINATION:
>
>1. Who are you, and what is the name of your invented language or
>languages? Pseudonyms allowed. (Are you using one? asked "Sally Caves")
I am Kevin Athey. My languages are numerous, but the only ones with much
staying power are Þewthaj (macron over /e/, grave accent over /a/),
Neushar/Necetsi, and Patang (Wimutipatang, Patanggwe, Patanggwa, and a
couple of other variants).
>*2. Are you new to the Lunatic Survey or have you filled out a version of
>this survey before?
I'm new.
>3. Do you have a website for you language/world(s)? If so, please list the
>URL address.
No. Not as yet.
>4. What is your email address? name at hostsite dot whatever.
kevindeanathey at hotmail dot com, for purposes of this list.
>5. What is your age? (vague answers allowed, but it is an important
>demographic)
24
>6. What is your gender?
Male
>7. What is your nationality? Where do you live now?
American. Kansas.
>8. What is your native language?
English
>9. What natural languages foreign to you have you studied or do you speak?
Spanish, German, Russian, Latin, Japanese, Chinese, Arabic, Kaqchikel, and
Sanskrit.
>10. What is your level of education? i.e., your highest degree achieved or
>sought?
Bachelor's Degree attained. Doctorate eventually sought.
>11. What is your profession? Are you a professional linguist? If so, what
>also makes you a conlanger?
I am a professional student. I will be a professional linguist. I have
always been a conlanger, and my philosophy is not complex enough to
understand why.
>13. If you are a student, what is your major or your area of study?
At present, cognative psychology. Ultimately, linguistics.
>14. How long have you been developing your invented language(s)?
As one tends to flow into another, I'm not altogether sure. Perhaps six
years or so.
>15. At what age did you first start inventing a language? Can you briefly
>describe your early efforts?
My conlang predates my current memories of conlanging, but I have documented
evidence of conlanging as early as 12 or 13. In this earliest conlang, I
had a intricate but entirely regular system of noun declension. It looked
kinda Finnish, although I had not seen Finnish at the time. Any verb
paradigm does not survive, if it existed at all.
>16. What drew you to start inventing a language and/or constructed world?
>What was the inspiration?
I'm not sure. I read Tolkien when I was 10. I assume I started then.
>17. Did you start inventing before you had heard of the list or after?
>Before you had heard of Esperanto or Tolkien? (I name the two most common
>inspirations)
Long before I had heard of the list. Almost certainly after Tolkien. I
learned of Esperanto in high school, and by then my conlangs were becoming
quite complex.
>18. Tolkien calls it a "shy art" and a "secret vice"; but that was before
>the Internet. How secret do you keep it from others outside this list for
>much the same reasons?
There is a lot about my life I do not volunteer to people. There isn't much
that I won't acknowledge if asked. My conlanging is secret insofar as it
rarely comes up in conversation.
>19. Yaguello has called it "pathological," influenced, unfortunately, by a
>lot of psychiatric writings such as _Le Schizo et la langue_. To what
>extent have you encountered such reactions by outsiders you had taken into
>your confidence?
Never.
>*20. Do you consider it nerdy to be doing this? This is a term that gets
>tossed around a lot. Or actually sophisticated? Do you need to get a life,
>or is this your life? What is a life?
Conlanging is one of many hobbies, not my life in its entirety. I do look
at it as an art. In my idiolect, "nerdy" refers to being overacademic. I
may toe the line here a bit in linguistics as a whole, but never conlanging.
"Geeky", however, is quite apt by my reckoning.
>21. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and musical
>ability. Are you musically inclined? Do you sing and/or play a musical
>instrument? Do you compose music?
I sing, badly. I play guitar, badly. I used to play piano fairly well, but
I have no access any longer, and I've atrophied. I composed music, badly.
I do swing dancing very marginally, but quite enthusiasticly. I am a music
geek, though. And that's all the answer I'm able to give here.
>22. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and mathematical
>ability. Are you mathematically inclined or inclined towards computing in
>any way?
I'm very mathematicly inclined. I was going to get a degree in mathematics
once upon a time, but I gave it up for linguistics. Math may be easy for
me, but it's also boring.
I can't get past looking at computers as hateful tools. I'm exactly as
proficient as I need to be, but I have no interest in exploring further.
>23. What other passions do you pursue that give you creative pleasure?
>(painting, drawing, sculpting, calligraphy, model-building, novel or
>story-writing, role-playing games, map-making, book-making, poetry,
>web-designing, star-gazing or other?)
I like... stuff. I tend to do so many things for so short a time that
listing my "hobbies" or "interests" can be very hard. In addition to what
I've mentioned above, I like role-playing and game design, writing poetry
and prose, skydiving, roadtrips, learning languages, reading anything and
everything (comics and non-fiction predominately right now), cooking, and
watching wierd movies and television shows.
>B. FEATURES OF YOUR INVENTION
>
>1. Pick the best term for the invented language you are currently invested
>in: auxlang, artlang, engelang, loglang, lostlang, philosophical language,
>or "other." etc.
Artlangs are the only conlangs I do anymore. I am sort of picking at what
might be called an auxlang, but the philosophy behind it is so artistic and
atelic that it's really better considered an artlang, too.
>2. Is your conlang a priori (devised from scratch) or a posteriori (based
>on an existing natural language or drawing from a language class such as
>Semitic)?
I haven't devised an a posteriori conlang in years. My pseudo-auxlang
doesn't have a lexicon yet, and the grammar is all pidginy and not based on
any specific language, so the simple answer is "a priori".
>4. Do you have a script for your conlang? What is it called? Could you
>provide me at a later date with a sample of it? Is it on Langmaker's
>"neography" site?
I have a complex script for Þewthaj, but I haven't rendered it into a font,
yet. If you are really curious, I can scan it and send you a jpg or
something. E-mail me if you want me to do that. It's not enough trouble to
be a hassle, but it's just enough trouble for me not to waste my time unless
it's desired.
>5. Briefly describe the outlines of your invented language (syntactical
>structure--VO, OV, etc.; class or type--analytic, synthetic, agglutinating,
>incorporative, accusative, ergative, active, trigger, other, combinations,
>etc.), noting what you have done with it that is innovative in your
>opinion.
Þewthaj: Topic verb non-topic-noun-phrases. Role-marking only required for
topic, located on verb. Nouns inflected for "person", meaning either person
of noun or person of possessor by context. Tonal. About as isolating as
English (which isn't really an inspiration). Agent-patient-experiencer
distinction. All of the few inflections are prefixes. Heavy compounding
and verb chains. Three vowels differentiated only for height.
Necetsi: Very free word order with VSO tendancies. Nom-gen-loc case
system. Palatalization. Unusual diphthongs. Two grammatical
(non-semantic) "genders": major and minor/diminutive. Two passives. All
words are either nouns are verbs. (I'm toying with adding a tiny closed
adjective category, but there Necetsi has no adpositions, adverbs, or
conjunctions.)
*Patang*: Too unstable to mention much, other than a tendancy to vowel
harmony.
I have a lot of other little languages where some of my more interesting
ideas gestate.
>7. How extensive would you say your invented language is, now? How big the
>vocabulary? Do you provide a vocabulary list or taxonomy on your website if
>you have one?
Þewthaj is the most extensive. It's vocabulary is still fairly small. I'm
still working on a good diachronic paradigm. Once that is done, I'll be
able to spill an ocean of words.
>8. How do you build vocabulary? Some people pull words out of the air;
>others build up a base of root words and affixes. Many do both.
It really depends on the language. I've done both exclusively in various
languages, I've used a word generator exclusively in one, and in my
languages I've used two or all three methods.
>3. Does a constructed world accompany your invention(s)? What is it called?
No. Not really. Some languages are implicitely in the same world, but
that's the extent of it.
>*9. Has your language and conworld ever served in a role-playing game or a
>world shared by other conlangers?
I've used minimalist languages to add feel to rpgs, but never anything
extensive. Languages I care about change too much.
>*10. Briefly describe your conculture (is it within the bounds of this
>world? on another world, etc.?)
NA
>*11. Are the beings who speak your invented language human or alien? If
>alien, what features have you given the language to make it alien or how
>have you restricted or expanded its phonology? vocabulary?
Human in the cases where there is a fictionally history for the language (as
in Þewthaj). Necetsi and a few others have no fictional history or
speakers.
>12. What do you write in it? Poems? chants? lullabyes? prayers? history?
>stories? recipes? Are any of these exhibited on your website?
I use proverbs to test the language, but I write very little (in my
languages).
>13. Can you speak your conlang? Are you fluent in it? Is this a goal for
>you? Have you tried to teach it to an intimate? a companion animal? :)
I have only one language with a vocabulary large enough to allow fluency,
and I don't much like it.
>14. Have you made any soundbytes of your language? Could you provide me at
>a later date with a sample of them?
No.
>*15. If you use Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is your writing
>system? In other words, do you use unconventional letters or letter
>combinations to represent sounds? Why or why not? I'm thinking, of course,
>of Etabnannery, for those who remember it.
It varies from language to language. I usually have a couple of different
romanizations, though. In no case do I make a romanization unnecessarily
complex, however. (Excepting, perhaps, Saidte uDhalaod ['zA:dUgV'lA:D],
which has historical reasons for it's complexity.)
>16. How many of you sing in your language and have invented songs for that
>purpose?
None of me sing in my languages.
>*17. How many of you, for entertainment or any other reason, resort to
>gibberish? (This is in response to Adrian Morgan's question in December).
>Does it give you ideas for conlanging? (Have you ever fooled anyone?) How
>many of you have sung gibberish?
Heh. I do. It does. (It has.) I have.
>*18. What on-line games do you play? (or devise?) Translations, Babel-text,
>Relays, etc.
I don't. Not any more. <sigh>
>19. Which do you prefer doing: devising phonology? script? structure?
>building vocabulary?
Phonology and structure over script and vocabulary, but I also like devising
semantics, which seems frequently to be ignored.
>20. Do you start and stop several different conlangs, or do you tend to
>stick with one and develop it over years?
I do both.
>21. What do you think makes a "complete" conlang, if a conlang can attain
>completion? What are your goals for completion? When do you grow "tired" of
>your conlang, or don't you?
A conlang is never complete nor completely abandoned with me. At most, a
conlang my be temporarily stable or may slowly change every aspect and
become entirely new.
>*22. Which came first: the conlang or the conworld?
Um, the omlet.
(I don't have a conworld.)
>C. PHILOSOPHY AND AESTHETIC:
>
>1. What aesthetic features do you value in inventing language? Be specific
>as to phonology, structure, script, etc.
Phonology: realism, non-Indo-European tendancies, an interesting quirk
Structure: realism, non-Indo-European tendancies, an interesting quirk
Semantics: realism, non-Indo-European tendancies, an interesting quirk
(I didn't actually intend to do that. I guess my language design is pretty
predictable.)
>2. What commonly applied aesthetics have you ever tried to avoid in your
>invention? This has been an oft debated question, especially when it comes
>to Tolkien.
I will use anything, but I try not to combine characteristics used together
in other 'langs. I avoid /D/ and /T/ (but they occur in Þewthaj). I avoid
an /l/ /r/ distinction (but there is one in Necetsi). I prefer split-S
systems (but Necetsi is fully nominative). I dislike an inflected future
tense. I dislike base-ten number systems (but Necetsi will probably develop
one). I don't much like adpositions. I don't must like adverbs, either
(which Þewthaj has in abundance). I have never used clicks. Yet. No,
wait. I have.
>3. Is difficulty or obscurity a goal in inventing a language?
Not really. I mean, realism is paramount in 96% of my conlangs. In some
cases that makes the language hard for IE speakers. In some cases that
makes the language easy. Irregularity is almost always a goal, though, if
that's what you mean.
>4. Is efficiency a goal in inventing a language? This question needn't
>cancel out the previous one.
Kind of... to the extent that languages are efficient.
>5. How natural do you wish to make it, or is that a concern? Or rather, how
>unnatural do you wish to make it?
Almost all of my conlangs are intended to be very naturalistic.
>6. Can conlanging be sexy? sensual? obsessing? how does it heal or harm
>you?
That's a wierd question. I guess it can be any of those things. It's an
art, after all. It does what art does.
>*7. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of obscenities?
Yes. Oh, yes.
>8. Can it be mystical? To what extent does conlanging fulfill a spiritual
>purpose for you? Or a magical one? Did it ever start out that way?
I am an atheist, so none of my languages fill this purpose for me. However,
the linguistics of mysticism fascinate me, and have always been a conlanging
inspiration. All of my concultures have vibrant religious systems.
>9. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of magical, religious,
>or incantatory terms?
See the last line of the previous answer.
>*10. How many of you have striven to invent words that express novel ideas,
>or are not expressed in any natural language that you know?
Well, when the language has a fictional culture, it expresses the ideas that
culture needs to express. When it doesn't, it expresses ideas _I_ need to
express. In either case I guess the answer is no, but sort of it's yes, as
I make distinctions I wish English and the languages I've studied had made.
>11. Name a few of the words in your language(s) that you are most pleased
>with and are the most original to you.
Fawma/fauma is the word for "owl" in about eight of my languages.
Bel is a common word for dog in a lot of my conlangs.
Feane [fe_^an:] is the Necetsi word for people. It's pretty. (The
language's name is Necetsi Fean [ne'ketS fe_^an] meaning "the language of
the people.)
I like the names of the languages Wimutipatang and Tinga.
'Ya, mey, tlir, and sah mean white, black, red, and blue respectively, but
only when the color is uneven or natural. There are a different set of
colors in Þewthaj meaning solid colors.
The phonology of Þewthaj allows for some interesting onomonpeia. 'hih
[?_h1_Hx] is the word for cough.
>12. How do you sense that a word is "right" for its meaning? How much do
>you labor at fitting a sound to its sense? Or don't you care?
For me, this is negative. I don't care if it's right, so long as it doesn't
sound wrong. I can't explain what sounds wrong, though.
>*13. Do you ever rely on a software program to build vocabulary? Do those
>who don't think that's cheating? :)
I have. I've found the best thing to do with such software is to use it to
get a pool of unassigned words to draw from. This only works for
synchronical languages, however. Diachronic languages have, for me, gotten
too damn messy.
>*14. Is conlang a hobby, a craft, or an art in your mind? This has been
>hotly debated, so the question is not as weird as it seems. Can conlanging
>be considered an art? Why or why not?
It is all three for me. Plenty of things are both crafts and arts, and the
word "hobby" means something completely independant of the two (at least in
my ideolect).
I don't see why anything that is done with aesthetics as a primary
consideration should not be considered an art. Likewise, to me anything
done with utility and worksmanship as goals is a craft.
>*15. If it is, who do you think are its consumers?
Art does not need consumers.
>*16. This question is directed as well at any auxlangers on the list. Is it
>an art, a political tool, both? And who do you think could be its
>consumers?
NA
>*17. There has been some exciting talk recently (and over the years) about
>what a conlang is or is not. If you could pick a metaphor or write a
>descriptive phrase defining "conlang," what would that be?
Conlang is an art wherein you make something in which art can be made. It's
like devising a poetical style, or making a game, or creating a new type of
music. It's a little bit like architecture, too, in this regard.
>*18. Why or why not would you eschew the metaphors "miniature" or "model"?
Conlanging is what it is. I don't much care what other people call it. I
call it conlanging or making/inventing/creating languages.
>*19. Is a conlang more like a glimpse of something lifesize? (Irina's
>suggestion in 2001)
I guess. Only a couple of conlangs in history have been big enough to be
"complete" languages.
>*20. There has been some invigorating discussion lately about what a
>conlang can do that most natural languages don't (such as produce OSV
>structure, or eradicate verbs) What experiments have you made with your
>artlang(s) along these lines?
I either stick to things that I know occur in natlangs, or I extrapolate to
things I am certain should be able to occur. Commonality, however, is of
little concern to me. My experimenting is with the minutiae, not the gross
conglomeration of unusual parts.
>*21 What do you think distinguishes a conlang from a natural language, if
>you think so at all? What would it take for a linguist to be fooled into
>thinking a conlang was a natural language?
Well, a conlang is created by somebody while a natlang evolves... That's
not what you're asking, though. I'd say there is no specific characteristic
(besides lack of completeness) that conlangs have that natlangs don't, but
conlangs tend to violate universals, usually accidently, and wind up looking
"wierd". As for fooling a linguist, linguists are human and usually
passionate. Given the right linguist, a certain degree of experience in
naturalistic conlanging and typology, and the intention to do so, a hoax
wouldn't be that hard.
>*22. How much do you study other languages in order to discover what is
>natural in language? Or to discover how you can stretch the boundaries of
>language to make it do things that are unnatural?
Well, a lot, to answer literally. But, I don't do this for conlanging. I
am studying typology because I want to study typology as a living.
>*23. Can such a language function?
An unnatural language? It depends on what you mean by function. I think
the human mind is much more stretchy than most modern linguists give it
credit for. Note that I said "most".
>*24. There has been quite a bit of fascinating debate about the relevance
>of conlanging to linguistic study. We all know that linguistics can aid
>conlangers, but in what ways can conlangers aid linguists? Or does it
>matter?
Conlangers can horribly mislead linguists. In my opinion, barring actual
human experiements (which would be wonderful!) conlangs should stay out of
linguistic study, at least for a century or two: until we understand
natural languages better.
>D. THE LISTSERV
>
>1. How did you first hear of this list?
I think I found it by websearch.
>2. How long have you been on this listserv or on other related listservs?
>Continuously? Infrequently? Off and on? More off than on and vice versa?
Continuously, I guess. I read archives off and on for a while before
subscribing recently.
>*3. What is the appeal of being on a listserv and contributing to it? Do
>you think you contribute moderately or excessively, or not enough? Do you
>tend to lurk ?
I haven't been on long enough to be comfortable answering this question.
>*4. For those of you who remember its inception, how has it changed over
>the past decade?
NA
>*5. How helpful has the list been in developing your language? In learning
>linguistic information?
That remains to be seen.
>6. What books have you consulted? On your own, or because you heard of them
>on the list?
None, as of yet. (Although the list has already mentioned a few books I've
already read.)
>*7. Do you peruse the websites of other conlangers?
Of course.
>*8. Do you sense that people on this list are interested in your conlang
>and give you feedback on it?
I guess. I'm not evangelizing, so it really doesn't matter much to me.
>9. Have you ever set out to learn at least a little bit of someone's
>conlang, if only a word or two, or a phrase?
Not for years.
>*10. Do you peruse Jeffrey Henning's Langmaker.com site?
Yes.
>*11. What on-line techniques do you use to showcase your conlang, such as
>Audacity or other sound programs, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Fontography,
>and so forth? Did you hear of them on the list?
I don't have an online presence.
>12. Have you ever tried to introduce a friend to the list?
No. None of my friends conlang (save one, of whom I've lost track, and
another, who has stopped because my knowledge of linguistics intimidates him
<frown>).
>13. Do you know of anyone who does this kind of thing but who has never
>heard of the list?
See the above.
>*14. What other lists do you frequent related to conlanging?
None.
>*15. What do you think will be the future of the list? I see it giving
>birth to alternate lists like Conworld, Lostlanguages, Romlang, etc. What
>improves the present list and its helpfulness or entertainment value?
I'm not qualified to answer this yet, either.
>*16. What Internet technology would you most like to see developed that
>would aid you in showcasing your language(s)?
<shrug>
>*17. What lists like conlang exist in other cultures and languages that you
>know of?
I don't know of any, but that means very little.
>*18. There has been some terrific talk about CONLANG as a community. And
>yet so many of us seem to want the world to know of it and respect it. Is
>the CONLANG community enough?
I personally don't seek respect from others for my conlanging. At least,
not outside the community and my personal circle of friends. Even in those
cases, it isn't a strong desire at all.
>*19. In my 2000 on-line article
>(
http://journal.media-culture.org.au/0003/languages.php) I suggested that
>the Internet "may provide a site that, with the impetus of competition and
>showmanship, encourages inutile and obsessive activity"; I was quoting Jeff
>Salamon's article "Revenge of the Fanboys." Village Voice 13 Sep., 1994. He
>wrote that over ten years ago. Do outsiders still entertain such notions,
>do you think, about listservs like this one? Do you? To what extent has the
>list increased obsessive development in you? Would you be inventing as
>furiously as you are without the list or knowledge of other inventors?
>20. If asked whether it is not better to turn your linguistic talents to
>the learning and speaking of natural languages (a common response I've met
>with and aimed at criticizing introversion or solipsism), how would you
>answer?
Do both. Please do both. They help each other.
>*21. In Elizabethan times there were the inkhorn neologisms. There were
>ciphers and pasigraphies. Today there is conlanging. Do you think the
>contemporary world is more open to language innovation or more closed?
The world has more than six billion people in it. That's way too many for
me to generallize about.
>*22. What would Tolkien have done with such a community? He writes in "A
>Secret Vice" that language inventors "hardly ever show their works to one
>another, so none of them know who are the geniuses at the game, or who are
>the splendid 'primitives'." He suggests that perhaps in a later time
>language invention will become respectable, and such things can be
>exhibited. Have we reached that time?
Perhaps we are reaching that time. I don't know, and I hesitate to say.
Tolkien, I would imagine, would thrive in this community. That's the
impression I get from reading "A Secret Vice", anyway.
>*23. Is there a danger that over-exposure can make conlanging "banal"? To
>what extent is it exciting because it is a) considered disreputable,
>"corny" or "mad," or b) largely unknown to the world? Does it have a
>fizzle-out date? In other words, is it just a fad, or is it a natural
>human inclination that will stand the test of time?
No. The vast majority of conlangers start doing what they're doing without
help from a community. They always have. Habits get ingrained before they
meet people of like hobby. Conlanging is not remotely popular enough to be
a fad, yet. I just don't think the community has any effect.
>Finally, may I have your permission to use any of this material of yours
>for my academic work on conlanging? First name? last name? pseudonym?
>anonymous?
Go ahead.
Athey
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