Re: LUNATIC SURVEY: 2005

Hi! Long time lurker. First time poster. Thought the survey made a good
jumping-in point,
so here goes...

 > A. PROFESSION, DEMOGRAPHICS, INCLINATION:
 >
 > 1. Who are you, and what is the name of your invented language or
languages? Pseudonyms
 >allowed. (Are you using one? asked "Sally Caves")
Robin Whelton. My language is currently called Tírshenian, but that will
change.

 > *2. Are you new to the Lunatic Survey or have you filled out a
version of this survey before?
No. I'm a newbie.

 > 3. Do you have a website for you language/world(s)? If so, please
list the URL address.
Not yet.

 > 4. What is your email address? name at hostsite dot whatever.
rmwhelton at witchingwell dot com

 > 5. What is your age? (vague answers allowed, but it is an important
demographic)
39

 > 6. What is your gender?
Female

 > 7. What is your nationality?  Where do you live now?
USA. Massachusetts.

 > 8. What is your native language?
Merkin English

 > 9. What natural languages foreign to you have you studied or do you
speak?
Four years of high school German, and two semesters of college Latin,
both exceedingly rusty.

 > 10. What is your level of education? i.e., your highest degree
achieved or sought?
Bachelors in computer science

 > 11. What is your profession? Are you a professional linguist? If so,
what also makes you a conlanger?
I supervise a word processing department, so I work with language every
day - unfortunately only English.

 > 13. If you are a student, what is your major or your area of study?
n/a

 > 14. How long have you been developing your invented language(s)?
Tírshenian's about a year old.

 > 15. At what age did you first start inventing a language? Can you
briefly describe your early efforts?
I've made naming languages for as long as I've been writing, probably
around age 10 or so.
Tírshenian is my first full-blown conlang.

 > 16. What drew you to start inventing a language and/or constructed
world? What was the inspiration?
I write fantasy stories, and I've always enjoyed detailed worlds,
including languages.

 > 17. Did you start inventing before you had heard of the list or
after? Before you had heard of Esperanto
 >or Tolkien? (I name the two most common inspirations)
Since my father was a dedicated Tolkien fan, I was quite literally
raised on him. I found out about
Esperanto in high school. I found the list a couple of months after I
started working on Tírshenian.

 > 18. Tolkien calls it a "shy art" and a "secret vice"; but that was
before the Internet. How secret do you
 >keep it from others outside this list for much the same reasons?
Not very. I talk about it occasionally in my blog. I work on my language
during my lunch breaks at work.
If anyone asks what I'm doing, I tell them.

 > 19. Yaguello has called it "pathological," influenced, unfortunately,
by a lot of psychiatric writings such
 >as _Le Schizo et la langue_. To what extent have you encountered such
reactions by outsiders you had
 >taken into your confidence?
Most of the people around me know that I'm a bit left of center, so when
they find out about my conlanging,
they tend to just add it to a list of odd things I do.

 > *20. Do you consider it nerdy to be doing this? This is a term that
gets tossed around a lot. Or actually
 >sophisticated? Do you need to get a life, or is this your life? What
is a life?
Sure it's nerdy. Anything that's not a physical sport or doesn't involve
alcohol is nerdy by most people's
definition, it seems. It's also very sophisticated, like most activities
that actually encourage the use of
one's brain cells. Of course I have a life, I just choose o spend a
significant portion of it creating a language.

 > 21. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and musical
ability. Are you musically inclined?
 >Do you sing and/or play a musical instrument? Do you compose music?
I played the flute in grammar school and junior high but dropped it
because I hated the music we had to play.
I periodically make half-hearted attempts at learning to play the
recorder and the bodhran. I sing a lot,
but not in front of people. Wouldn't want to scare them.

 > 22. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and
mathematical ability. Are you mathematically
 >inclined or inclined towards computing in any way?
My degree's in CS. I always did OK in math, but I never liked it, much
to the chagrin of my father the math teacher.

 > 23. What other passions do you pursue that give you creative
pleasure? (painting, drawing, sculpting, calligraphy,
 >model-building, novel or story-writing, role-playing games,
map-making, book-making, poetry, web-designing,
 >star-gazing or other?)
As I mentioned above, I write fantasy fiction. I also do a bit of
calligraphy now and then, mostly in Tolkien's Tengwar.
I dabble in web design occasionally, and I used to be an avid
role-player, though that seems to have fallen by the
wayside for the nonce. I'm also working on my genealogy, though I try to
be more imaginitive than actually creative
there.


 > B. FEATURES OF YOUR INVENTION
 >
 > 1. Pick the best term for the invented language you are currently
invested in: auxlang, artlang, engelang, loglang,
 >lostlang, philosophical language, or "other." etc.
artlang.

 > 2. Is your conlang a priori (devised from scratch) or a posteriori
(based on an existing natural language or drawing
 >from a language class such as Semitic)?
a priori.

 > 4. Do you have a script for your conlang? What is it called? Could
you provide me at a later date with a sample of it?
 >Is it on Langmaker's "neography" site?
I have a few dozen pages of doodles, none of which are grabbing me yet.

 > 5. Briefly describe the outlines of your invented language
(syntactical structure--VO, OV, etc.; class or type--analytic,
 >synthetic, agglutinating, incorporative, accusative, ergative, active,
trigger, other, combinations, etc.), noting what
 >you have done with it that is innovative in your opinion.
Tírshenian is VSO and accusative. It has over twenty noun cases at last
count. It's phonology was vaguely inspired by
Hungarian and Romany, but with a simplified vowel system. It has a
pronoun system that divides gender by something
the Tírshenians call "interactivity level" - nonresponsive vs responsive
vs able to reply - and by social standing in the
"high interactivity" category, but not by physical sex.

 > 7. How extensive would you say your invented language is, now? How
big the vocabulary? Do you provide a vocabulary
 >list or taxonomy on your website if you have one?
The lexicon currently has a bit over 600 words in it. I'm concentrating
on the grammar at the moment.

 > 8. How do you build vocabulary? Some people pull words out of the
air; others build up a base of root words and affixes.
 >Many do both.
I pull roots and affixes out of the air.

 > 3. Does a constructed world accompany your invention(s)? What is it
called?
Yes. The world itself doesn't really have a name.

 > *9. Has your language and conworld ever served in a role-playing game
or a world shared by other conlangers?
No.

 > *10. Briefly describe your conculture (is it within the bounds of
this world? on another world, etc.?)
The Tírshenians live in an earthlike world where they have regular trade
relations with their human neighbors.

 > *11. Are the beings who speak your invented language human or alien?
If alien, what features have you given
 >the language to make it alien or how have you restricted or expanded
its phonology? vocabulary?
The Tírshenians aren't human, but they are closely related.
Consequently, their language isn't that different
from a human language.

 > 12. What do you write in it? Poems? chants? lullabyes? prayers?
history? stories? recipes? Are any of these
 >exhibited on your website?
Currently, I have a few lines of dialogue in a draft of a novel.

 > 13. Can you speak your conlang? Are you fluent in it? Is this a goal
for you? Have you tried to teach it to an
 >intimate? a companion animal? :)
I'd love to be fluent in it. I doubt it will ever happen, though.

 > 14. Have you made any soundbytes of your language? Could you provide
me at a later date with a sample of them?
No.

 > *15. If you use Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is your
writing system? In other words, do you use
 >unconventional letters or letter combinations to represent sounds? Why
or why not? I’m thinking, of course, of
 >Etabnannery, for those who remember it.
I try to keep it phonetic and moderately recognizable.

 > 16. How many of you sing in your language and have invented songs for
that purpose?
No, but I've begun talking to myself in it.

 > *17. How many of you, for entertainment or any other reason, resort
to gibberish? (This is in response to Adrian
 >Morgan’s question in December). Does it give you ideas for conlanging?
(Have you ever fooled anyone?) How many
 >of you have sung gibberish?
I was big on gibberish when I was younger. Now, any syllables that fall
out of my mouth don't remain meaningless
long enough to qualify as gibberish.

 > *18. What on-line games do you play? (or devise?) Translations,
Babel-text, Relays, etc.
No language-based ones.

 > 19. Which do you prefer doing: devising phonology? script? structure?
building vocabulary?
I enjoy sketching grammar the most, followed by phonology.

 > 20. Do you start and stop several different conlangs, or do you tend
to stick with one and develop it over years?
I've only got the one, so far.

 > 21. What do you think makes a "complete" conlang, if a conlang can
attain completion? What are your goals for
 >completion? When do you grow "tired" of your conlang, or don’t you?
I don't think there' any such thing as a complete language. There's
usable and not usable. I want mine to be usable.
And I haven't been at this long enough to get bored yet.

 > *22. Which came first: the conlang or the conworld?
The conworld.


 > C. PHILOSOPHY AND AESTHETIC:
 >
 > 1. What aesthetic features do you value in inventing language? Be
specific as to phonology, structure, script, etc.
I like languages I can pronounce, though a few new sounds are always fun
to learn.

 > 2. What commonly applied aesthetics have you ever tried to avoid in
your invention? This has been an oft debated
 >question, especially when it comes to Tolkien.
I owe a lot to Tolkien, but I try very hard not to create anything
derivative.

 > 3. Is difficulty or obscurity a goal in inventing a language?
Not for me. Not at the moment, anyway.

 > 4. Is efficiency a goal in inventing a language? This question
needn’t cancel out the previous one.
That depends on what the purpose of the language is.

 > 5. How natural do you wish to make it, or is that a concern? Or
rather, how unnatural do you wish to make it?
I try to make it reasonably natural, but I'm not killing myself over it.

 > 6. Can conlanging be sexy? sensual? obsessing? how does it heal or
harm you?
I think conlanging's sexiness and sensuality depends on the personality
of the conlanger.
Likewise it's ability to make you obsess. I hapen to be the obsessive
type, So I know that
if I'm not obsessing over my language, I'm doing it over something else
anyway.
Conlanging, like my writing, is a refuge from the real world sometimes.
Spending an
hour or two at it can really take the edge of a bad day.

 > *7. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of obscenities?
Not yet, but it'll happen. As soon as I figure out what the Tírshenians
consider obscene.

 > 8. Can it be mystical? To what extent does conlanging fulfill a
spiritual purpose for you? Or a magical one?
 >Did it ever start out that way?
Absolutely. If there's magic in anything manmade, it's in language. And
since I'm Pagan, I tend to look for such things.

 > 9. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of magical,
religious, or incantatory terms?
I'm still figuring out the Tírshenians' religion, but it's coming

 > *10. How many of you have striven to invent words that express novel
ideas, or are not expressed in any natural
 >language that you know?
Not "striven" really, but I keep my senses open for possibilities.

 > 11. Name a few of the words in your language(s) that you are most
pleased with and are the most original to you.
I'm rather fond of _hisnith_ ['xIsnIT] "to straighten up from a leaning
posture", and _madhorn_ ['maDorn] "to murder"

 > 12. How do you sense that a word is "right" for its meaning? How much
do you labor at fitting a sound to its sense?
 >Or don’t you care?
I'm not sure how I know it, but when I hit the right word, I know it.

 > *13. Do you ever rely on a software program to build vocabulary? Do
those who don’t think that’s cheating? :)
I use the Conlang Word Maker at http://www.fantasist.net/wordmaker.shtml
to generate random syllables, then
pick through them when I need a new word.

 > *14. Is conlang a hobby, a craft, or an art in your mind? This has
been hotly debated, so the question is not as weird
 >as it seems. Can conlanging be considered an art? Why or why not?
It's all three for me. It's a pastime that requires learning new skills
but it also lets me be creative.

 > *15. If it is, who do you think are its consumers?
Eventually, the readers of any books I publish. Right now, just me.

 > *16. This question is directed as well at any auxlangers on the list.
Is it an art, a political tool, both? And who do you
 >think could be its consumers?
I'm not going to go there.

 > *17. There has been some exciting talk recently (and over the years)
about what a conlang is or is not. If you could
 >pick a metaphor or write a descriptive phrase defining "conlang," what
would that be?
Do we need metaphors to understand writing, painting, or building a
bookcase?

 > *18. Why or why not would you eschew the metaphors "miniature" or
"model"?
I rather think languages are full-sized objects that just aren't
necessarily "finished" yet.

 > *19. Is a conlang more like a glimpse of something lifesize? (Irina’s
suggestion in 2001)
I think that's closer to my opinion.

 > *20. There has been some invigorating discussion lately about what a
conlang can do that most natural languages don’t
 >(such as produce OSV structure, or eradicate verbs) What experiments
have you made with your artlang(s) along these lines?
I'm not really experimenting with anything radical yet.

 > *21  What do you think distinguishes a conlang from a natural
language, if you think so at all?  What would it take for a linguist
 >to be fooled into thinking a conlang was a natural language?
Ultimately the real difference lies in the length of existence and the
number of speakers a language has (or has had). After all,
someone had to have invented the first word in any proto-natlang, too. I
think a sufficiently skilled linguist could fool other
linguists, but I doubt I could ever speculate how.

 > *22. How much do you study other languages in order to discover what
is natural in language? Or to discover how you can
 >stretch the boundaries of language to make it do things that are
unnatural?
I skim a lot of basic grammars (natlang and conlang) for ideas. I'm not
really up to boundary-stretching yet.

 > *23. Can such a language function?
An "unnatural" one? Sure, why not.

 > *24. There has been quite a bit of fascinating debate about the
relevance of conlanging to linguistic study. We all know that
 >linguistics can aid conlangers, but in what ways can conlangers aid
linguists? Or does it matter?
In the long run, I don't think it matters much. I do see conlanging as a
great device for stimulating an interest in linguistics,
though.


 > D. THE LISTSERV
 >
 > 1. How did you first hear of this list?
On the Elfling mailing list (Tolkienien linguistics).

 > 2. How long have you been on this listserv or on other related
listservs? Continuously? Infrequently? Off and on? More
 >off than on and vice versa?
Probably a year or so. Continuously. Though I do fall seriously behind
in reading it when my real life gets too busy.

 > *3. What is the appeal of being on a listserv and contributing to it?
Do you think you contribute moderately or excessively,
 >or not enough? Do you tend to lurk ?
I'm a lurker by nature. I absorb and learn. And this list is full of
great teachers.

 > *4. For those of you who remember its inception, how has it changed
over the past decade?
n/a

 > *5. How helpful has the list been in developing your language? In
learning linguistic information?
Invaluable. I'd still be stumbling about lost without this list.

 > 6. What books have you consulted? On your own, or because you heard
of them on the list?
I haven't had the resources to buy any yet, or time to go to libraries,
but I have a growing wish list.

 > *7. Do you peruse the websites of other conlangers?
Often.

 > *8. Do you sense that people on this list are interested in your
conlang and give you feedback on it?
I suppose they might be, if I were ever to post anything.

 > 9. Have you ever set out to learn at least a little bit of someone’s
conlang, if only a word or two, or a phrase?
I've been a Sindarin junkie for years.

 > *10. Do you peruse Jeffrey Henning’s Langmaker.com site?
Once in a while.

 > *11. What on-line techniques do you use to showcase your conlang,
such as Audacity or other sound
 >programs, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Fontography, and so forth? Did you
hear of them on the list?
It's not online yet.

 > 12. Have you ever tried to introduce a friend to the list?
No.

 > 13. Do you know of anyone who does this kind of thing but who has
never heard of the list?
Sadly, no.

 > *14. What other lists do you frequent related to conlanging?
I mentioned Elfling already. I also read Lambengolmor and TolkLang. I
drop by the ZBB once
in a while and read the Livejournal conlanging community page.

 > *15. What do you think will be the future of the list? I see it
giving birth to alternate lists like
 >Conworld, Lostlanguages, Romlang, etc. What improves the present list
and its helpfulness or
 >entertainment value?
I don't think I've seen enough of its evolution to be able to make
predictions or value judgements.

 > *16. What Internet technology would you most like to see developed
that would aid you in
 >showcasing your language(s)?
Universal Unicode support would be nice.

 > *17. What lists like conlang exist in other cultures and languages
that you know of?
I don't know any.

 > *18. There has been some terrific talk about CONLANG as a community.
And yet so many of us
 >seem to want the world to know of it and respect it. Is the CONLANG
community enough?
You can never have too much of a good thing.

 > *19. In my 2000 on-line article
(http://journal.media-culture.org.au/0003/languages.php) I
 >suggested that the Internet "may provide a site that, with the impetus
of competition and showmanship,
 >encourages inutile and obsessive activity"; I was quoting Jeff
Salamon’s article "Revenge of the Fanboys."
 >Village Voice 13 Sep., 1994. He wrote that over ten years ago. Do
outsiders still entertain such notions,
 >do you think, about listservs like this one? Do you? To what extent
has the list increased obsessive
 >development in you? Would you be inventing as furiously as you are
without the list or knowledge of
 >other inventors?
I think outsiders see it that way. My opinion is that obsessive
personalities will obsess no matter what.

 > 20. If asked whether it is not better to turn your linguistic talents
to the learning and speaking of natural
 >languages (a common response I’ve met with and aimed at criticizing
introversion or solipsism), how
 >would you answer?
Is the person in question willing to teach me? I'm game, assuming I can
fit it into my schedule.

 > *21. In Elizabethan times there were the inkhorn neologisms. There
were ciphers and pasigraphies. Today
 >there is conlanging. Do you think the contemporary world is more open
to language innovation or more closed?
I'm tempted to say "both" but really I have no reliable idea.

 > *22. What would Tolkien have done with such a community? He writes in
"A Secret Vice" that language
 >inventors "hardly ever show their works to one another, so none of
them know who are the geniuses at the game,
 >or who are the splendid ‘primitives’." He suggests that perhaps in a
later time language invention will become
 >respectable, and such things can be exhibited. Have we reached that time?
I think the Professor would have been thrilled that we have this
opportunity for a community. I don't think we
qualify as respectable yet, and we won't, while so many of us are still
(as it were) in the closet. People learn to
respect what is familiar, and most people, even most linguists, don't
actually know any conlangers. Or, at
least they don't know that they do.

 > *23. Is there a danger that over-exposure can make conlanging
"banal"? To what extent is it exciting because
 >it is a) considered disreputable, "corny" or "mad," or b) largely
unknown to the world? Does it have a fizzle-out
 >date?  In other words, is it just a fad, or is it a natural human
inclination that will stand the test of time?
I think I'd be doing this even if it was the latest rage. I don't think
it's a fad. Making language is something basic
to human nature; most humans, though, just tamper a bit with their L1.
It's like working on your car: most folks
fill the tank and maybe check the oil; some like to tinker with the
factory model; we prefer to build from scratch.

 > Finally, may I have your permission to use any of this material of
yours for my academic work on conlanging?
 >First name? last name? pseudonym? anonymous?
Sure. Use whatever you find useful, including my name.


 >
 > Thanks!
 >
 > Sally Caves scaves@frontiernet.net

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