Re: LUNATIC SURVEY: 2005

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:41:04 -0500, Sally Caves <scaves@...>
wrote:

>LUNATIC SURVEY 2005, by Sally Caves
>
>A. PROFESSION, DEMOGRAPHICS, INCLINATION:
>
>1. Who are you, and what is the name of your invented language or
languages? Pseudonyms allowed. (Are you using one? asked "Sally Caves")

Joe Fatula, most recently posted Aorfoenni and Egramith.

>*2. Are you new to the Lunatic Survey or have you filled out a version of
this survey before?

New.

>3. Do you have a website for you language/world(s)? If so, please list the
URL address.

All as pages under http://mechanorium.tripod.com/artlang/, though without a
homepage for the collection yet.

>4. What is your email address? name at hostsite dot whatever.
joefatula@hotmail.com

>5. What is your age? (vague answers allowed, but it is an important
demographic)

20s

>6. What is your gender?
Male

>7. What is your nationality?  Where do you live now?
USA, do.

>8. What is your native language?
English

>9. What natural languages foreign to you have you studied or do you speak?
(in decreasing order of fluency)
Spanish, German, Kazak, French, Latin, Russian, Old English, Mandarin, lots
of other stuff

>10. What is your level of education? i.e., your highest degree achieved or
sought?

Halfway to a bachelor's.

>11. What is your profession? Are you a professional linguist? If so, what
also makes you a conlanger?

Student (again).

>13. If you are a student, what is your major or your area of study?
Computer Graphics

>14. How long have you been developing your invented language(s)?
The current ones?  Two or three years.

>15. At what age did you first start inventing a language? Can you briefly
describe your early efforts?

Somewhere around 5.  No prose, just song/poetry.

>16. What drew you to start inventing a language and/or constructed world?
What was the inspiration?

(for both language and world)
Natural, inherent - I couldn't imagine _not_ making up such things.  It
goes back to my earliest memories.  I still hear my childhood songs echoing
around in my head.

>17. Did you start inventing before you had heard of the list or after?
Before you had heard of Esperanto or Tolkien? (I name the two most common
inspirations)

Long before any of those.  I heard of Tolkien around the same time I heard
of this list, and I learned about Esperanto _from_ this list.

>18. Tolkien calls it a "shy art" and a "secret vice"; but that was before
the Internet. How secret do you keep it from others outside this list for
much the same reasons?

Only my family and closest of friends know that I do anything like this.
Even with them, I don't talk about it much.

>19. Yaguello has called it "pathological," influenced, unfortunately, by a
lot of psychiatric writings such as _Le Schizo et la langue_. To what
extent have you encountered such reactions by outsiders you had taken into
your confidence?

The only people I've told about conlanging are those who already know me
well enough that it seems like a natural thing for me to do.

>*20. Do you consider it nerdy to be doing this? This is a term that gets
tossed around a lot. Or actually sophisticated? Do you need to get a life,
or is this your life? What is a life?

"Nerdy" isn't anything like this.  I do some nerdy stuff, but this is
something different.  Nerdy is peripheral, this is core.  Take away
everything but stories and song, and I'd still be me.  Take away the
stories and song, and all would be lost.

>21. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and musical
ability. Are you musically inclined? Do you sing and/or play a musical
instrument? Do you compose music?

Yes to all of them.

>22. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and mathematical
ability. Are you mathematically inclined or inclined towards computing in
any way?

Yes, though I lack the training I'd like.  (Actually, that applies to
musical instruments as well.)

>23. What other passions do you pursue that give you creative pleasure?
(painting, drawing, sculpting, calligraphy, model-building, novel or story-
writing, role-playing games, map-making, book-making, poetry, web-
designing, star-gazing or other?)

All of the above except sculpting and model-building.  Add blacksmithing
and woodcarving to the list.

>B. FEATURES OF YOUR INVENTION
>
>1. Pick the best term for the invented language you are currently invested
in: auxlang, artlang, engelang, loglang, lostlang, philosophical language,
or "other." etc.

Artlang.

>2. Is your conlang a priori (devised from scratch) or a posteriori (based
on an existing natural language or drawing from a language class such as
Semitic)?

A priori.

>4. Do you have a script for your conlang? What is it called? Could you
provide me at a later date with a sample of it?  Is it on
Langmaker's "neography" site?

Many of my conlangs have scripts, though not the majority of them.  As I
post the script information, I'll let you guys know.  None of them are on
Langmaker.

>5. Briefly describe the outlines of your invented language (syntactical
structure--VO, OV, etc.; class or type--analytic, synthetic, agglutinating,
incorporative, accusative, ergative, active, trigger, other, combinations,
etc.), noting what you have done with it that is innovative in your opinion.

Looking at all of them...
SOV and VSO seem to be the most common.
Agglutinating is by far the most common.
Hard to come up with any more of a summary.  Many of them stand out.

>7. How extensive would you say your invented language is, now? How big the
vocabulary? Do you provide a vocabulary list or taxonomy on your website if
you have one?

I don't have any vocab lists online (I'm just now posting the basics).
Some of the languages have ~5,000 words.  Others have only 30 or so.

>8. How do you build vocabulary? Some people pull words out of the air;
others build up a base of root words and affixes. Many do both.

Both.  I just wait till I find the word that carries the meaning I'm
looking for.

>3. Does a constructed world accompany your invention(s)? What is it
called?

Yes.

>*9. Has your language and conworld ever served in a role-playing game or a
world shared by other conlangers?

Yes (role-playing).

>*10. Briefly describe your conculture (is it within the bounds of this
world? on another world, etc.?)

Similar to this world, ancient times.

>*11. Are the beings who speak your invented language human or alien? If
alien, what features have you given the language to make it alien or how
have you restricted or expanded its phonology? vocabulary?

Most of them are human.  Some of the non-human languages have interesting
phonologies.  One of them is mainly whistling and clicking.

>12. What do you write in it? Poems? chants? lullabyes? prayers? history?
stories? recipes? Are any of these exhibited on your website?

Poems, prayers, history, stories, treatises on rhetoric, astronomy,
mathematics, etc.

>13. Can you speak your conlang? Are you fluent in it? Is this a goal for
you? Have you tried to teach it to an intimate? a companion animal? :)

Fluent, no.  Nor is it a goal, though teaching the dog to answer to the
whistling swamp-folk language has been fun.

>14. Have you made any soundbytes of your language? Could you provide me at
a later date with a sample of them?

No, but that's a good idea.

>*15. If you use Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is your writing
system? In other words, do you use unconventional letters or letter
combinations to represent sounds? Why or why not? I'm thinking, of course,
of Etabnannery, for those who remember it.

Quite phonetic, if I can help it.

>16. How many of you sing in your language and have invented songs for that
purpose?

Well, I don't know how many, but whatever number you've got so far, add 1.

>*17. How many of you, for entertainment or any other reason, resort to
gibberish? (This is in response to Adrian Morgan's question in December).
Does it give you ideas for conlanging? (Have you ever fooled anyone?) How
many of you have sung gibberish?

I'm not sure I understand.  Probably, but maybe not.

>*18. What on-line games do you play? (or devise?) Translations, Babel-
text, Relays, etc.

None.

>19. Which do you prefer doing: devising phonology? script? structure?
building vocabulary?

All of those.  Whichever one's lacking the most in a language.

>20. Do you start and stop several different conlangs, or do you tend to
stick with one and develop it over years?

Start several, develop them all over several years.

>21. What do you think makes a "complete" conlang, if a conlang can attain
completion? What are your goals for completion? When do you grow "tired" of
your conlang, or don't you?

I don't seem to grow tired of them, really.  I don't think mine will ever
be complete, though I don't exactly know what "complete" would be.

>*22. Which came first: the conlang or the conworld?
The conlang, most definitely.

>C. PHILOSOPHY AND AESTHETIC:
>
>1. What aesthetic features do you value in inventing language? Be specific
as to phonology, structure, script, etc.

I don't think I could quantify it.  I don't know of any real examples that
come close.

>2. What commonly applied aesthetics have you ever tried to avoid in your
invention? This has been an oft debated question, especially when it comes
to Tolkien.

Not sure that I understand...

>3. Is difficulty or obscurity a goal in inventing a language?
Not usually.

>4. Is efficiency a goal in inventing a language? This question needn't
cancel out the previous one.

Not usually.

>5. How natural do you wish to make it, or is that a concern? Or rather,
how unnatural do you wish to make it?

Very natural.  (If it's for an alien race, "natural" to me would probably
what you mean by "unnatural"...)

>6. Can conlanging be sexy? sensual? obsessing? how does it heal or harm
you?

Umm... sexy doesn't figure into it.

>*7. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of obscenities?
I haven't.

>8. Can it be mystical? To what extent does conlanging fulfill a spiritual
purpose for you? Or a magical one? Did it ever start out that way?

This is a very hard question to answer - depending on what you mean, the
answer is either _definitely yes_ or _definitely no_.

>9. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of magical, religious,
or incantatory terms?

Not me.

>*10. How many of you have striven to invent words that express novel
ideas, or are not expressed in any natural language that you know?

Not striven to do so, but it's just happened.  I often find myself with a
concept that doesn't have a good way to be explained in English.

>11. Name a few of the words in your language(s) that you are most pleased
with and are the most original to you.

>12. How do you sense that a word is "right" for its meaning? How much do
you labor at fitting a sound to its sense? Or don't you care?

I labor at it quite a bit.  When it's the right one, it just sounds like
what it is.  Like how "red" is such a green word.

>*13. Do you ever rely on a software program to build vocabulary? Do those
who don't think that's cheating? :)

I've used programs to generate a long list of words following certain
patterns, but then I still have to figure out what they mean.  Most of them
I discard.

>*14. Is conlang a hobby, a craft, or an art in your mind? This has been
hotly debated, so the question is not as weird as it seems. Can conlanging
be considered an art? Why or why not?

I'd put it in the same category as writing music or poetry.  Just as the
choice of words in a poem makes the poem what it is, I choose the words at
a deeper level, going all the way to making the language itself.

>*15. If it is, who do you think are its consumers?
My understanding of art doesn't have anything to do with consumers.  If you
define art as needing an audience (as it were), then most of my artistic
pursuits aren't art.

>*16. This question is directed as well at any auxlangers on the list. Is
it an art, a political tool, both? And who do you think could be its
consumers?

Anything that can move people's hearts can be a political tool.

>*17. There has been some exciting talk recently (and over the years) about
what a conlang is or is not. If you could pick a metaphor or write a
descriptive phrase defining "conlang," what would that be?

I'd go on to #19, a glimpse of something bigger.

>*18. Why or why not would you eschew the metaphors "miniature" or "model"?
A conlang can be a miniature or a model, though I think it depends greatly
on the conlang.

>*19. Is a conlang more like a glimpse of something lifesize? (Irina's
suggestion in 2001)

Lifesize, or larger than that.

>*20. There has been some invigorating discussion lately about what a
conlang can do that most natural languages don't (such as produce OSV
structure, or eradicate verbs) What experiments have you made with your
artlang(s) along these lines?

I've played with verbless conlangs before...

>*21  What do you think distinguishes a conlang from a natural language, if
you think so at all?  What would it take for a linguist to be fooled into
thinking a conlang was a natural language?

Made up all at once vs. over a long period of time.  Made up by one person
vs. by many people.  But it's basically the same thing.

You could make a conlang that would fool a linguist - no question there.

>*22. How much do you study other languages in order to discover what is
natural in language? Or to discover how you can stretch the boundaries of
language to make it do things that are unnatural?

I study other languages all the time, but I don't think that's why I study
them.

>*23. Can such a language function?
If it can't, it's not much of a language, is it?

>*24. There has been quite a bit of fascinating debate about the relevance
of conlanging to linguistic study. We all know that linguistics can aid
conlangers, but in what ways can conlangers aid linguists? Or does it
matter?

Consider a model of a star system as an aid to astronomers.  But I don't
think that's what makes conlanging important.


>D. THE LISTSERV
>
>1. How did you first hear of this list?
Searching for language material online.

>2. How long have you been on this listserv or on other related listservs?
Continuously? Infrequently? Off and on? More off than on and vice versa?

Several years off and on.

>*3. What is the appeal of being on a listserv and contributing to it? Do
you think you contribute moderately or excessively, or not enough? Do you
tend to lurk ?

I mainly like hearing what people are up to, so I lurk quite a bit.

>*4. For those of you who remember its inception, how has it changed over
the past decade?

I haven't been around long enough.

>*5. How helpful has the list been in developing your language? In learning
linguistic information?

Mainly it's been helpful to learn about other aspects of linguistics, see
what other people are doing with their languages.

>6. What books have you consulted? On your own, or because you heard of
them on the list?

I've consulted hundreds of books.  I purchased "Describing Morphosyntax"
because of a recommendation here, and it was definitely worth it.

>*7. Do you peruse the websites of other conlangers?
All the time.

>*8. Do you sense that people on this list are interested in your conlang
and give you feedback on it?

Amazingly, yes.  I've gotten more feedback than I expected.

>9. Have you ever set out to learn at least a little bit of someone's
conlang, if only a word or two, or a phrase?

Yes.

>*10. Do you peruse Jeffrey Henning's Langmaker.com site?
No.

>*11. What on-line techniques do you use to showcase your conlang, such as
Audacity or other sound programs, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Fontography,
and so forth? Did you hear of them on the list?

Dreamweaver's about it.  I make my graphics in Photoshop.  I knew about
them before I knew about the list.

>12. Have you ever tried to introduce a friend to the list?
No.

>13. Do you know of anyone who does this kind of thing but who has never
heard of the list?

No.

>*14. What other lists do you frequent related to conlanging?
There are others?

>*15. What do you think will be the future of the list? I see it giving
birth to alternate lists like Conworld, Lostlanguages, Romlang, etc. What
improves the present list and its helpfulness or entertainment value?

I have no idea.

>*16. What Internet technology would you most like to see developed that
would aid you in showcasing your language(s)?

Unicode support for _everything_.

>*17. What lists like conlang exist in other cultures and languages that
you know of?

None.

>*18. There has been some terrific talk about CONLANG as a community. And
yet so many of us seem to want the world to know of it and respect it. Is
the CONLANG community enough?

I don't have an answer for that.

>*19. In my 2000 on-line article (http://journal.media-
culture.org.au/0003/languages.php) I suggested that the Internet "may
provide a site that, with the impetus of competition and showmanship,
encourages inutile and obsessive activity"; I was quoting Jeff Salamon's
article "Revenge of the Fanboys." Village Voice 13 Sep., 1994. He wrote
that over ten years ago. Do outsiders still entertain such notions, do you
think, about listservs like this one? Do you? To what extent has the list
increased obsessive development in you? Would you be inventing as furiously
as you are without the list or knowledge of other inventors?

I would be doing this without the list - it's just nice to have other
people to talk with about it.

>20. If asked whether it is not better to turn your linguistic talents to
the learning and speaking of natural languages (a common response I've met
with and aimed at criticizing introversion or solipsism), how would you
answer?

That'd be like saying you shouldn't write music, only learn music other
people have written.  If you only write music and never learn any, you'd be
missing out on a lot of good stuff that's already out there.  And if you
only learn music and never write any, you're making sure that you'll never
make any good stuff of your own.

>*21. In Elizabethan times there were the inkhorn neologisms. There were
ciphers and pasigraphies. Today there is conlanging. Do you think the
contemporary world is more open to language innovation or more closed?

I don't know where the world is in this regard.

>*22. What would Tolkien have done with such a community? He writes in "A
Secret Vice" that language inventors "hardly ever show their works to one
another, so none of them know who are the geniuses at the game, or who are
the splendid 'primitives'." He suggests that perhaps in a later time
language invention will become respectable, and such things can be
exhibited. Have we reached that time?

Not exactly - we've found a meeting point, though.

>*23. Is there a danger that over-exposure can make conlanging "banal"? To
what extent is it exciting because it is a) considered
disreputable, "corny" or "mad," or b) largely unknown to the world? Does it
have a fizzle-out date?  In other words, is it just a fad, or is it a
natural human inclination that will stand the test of time?

Its excitement doesn't seem to be related to what other people think of
it.  At least for myself, the drive to do this doesn't seem to be related
to the rest of the world at all, it's a part of me.  If other people have
that same "part" in the future, then it will stand the test of time.

>Finally, may I have your permission to use any of this material of yours
for my academic work on conlanging? First name? last name? pseudonym?
anonymous?

Go right ahead.  If you're going to cite me, use "Joe Fatula" as the name.