Re: USAGE: Language revival

At 8:26 pm +0000 30/11/99, And Rosta wrote:
[....]
>
>Ray:
>> 'Twas always /'fOrId/ when I was a youngster, just as tortoises were
>always
>> /'tO:t@zIs/ (or /'tOrt@zIs/ among the old-timers :)
>
>I was horrified when my son started saying /'tO:tOIz/, but for me they're
>/'tO:t@s@z/.
OOOPPPS!!  I got my Zs and Ss crossed - yuck!

I should, of course, have written:
just as tortoises were always /'tO:t@sIz/ (or /'tOrt@sIz/ among the
old-timers :)

Isn't there some pun in one of the Alice books about "tortoise"
>and "taught us"?
Sure is:
In 'Alice in Wonderland', Chapter IX:
  "When we were little," the Mock Turtle went on at last, more calmly,
though still sobbing a little now and then, "we went to school in the sea.
The master was an old Turtle - we used to call him Tortoise - "
  "Why did you call him Tortoise, if he wasn't one?" Alice asked.
  "We called him Tortoise because he taught us," said the Mock Turtle
angrily.  "Really you are very dull!"

And of course down here in the south east 'taught us' and 'tortoise' are
(or were) homophones.

>> Strangely, while I've got(ten) used to /Oftn=/ and find nothing very odd
>> about it - except I say /Ofn=/ - /'fO:hEd/ and /'tO:tojz/ sound very
>> effected to me
>
>They're nigh on universal among the young. In class, I ask "Who says [X]"
>(where X is /Ofn=/, /fOrId/, /tO:t@s/); noone answers & I say "really?
>noone?" and then someone says "my granddad does" & one thinks sic transit
>gloria monday.
I still hear the occasional /'tO:t@s/, thank heavens.  The -oi- has no
etymological justification; I don't understand how it ever got into the
spelling.

>> - and as for /'vajnj@d/ - ach!!
>
>Never heard it.
You're lucky :)

>But I'm a /weIsk@Ut/ sayer.
Yes, /weisk@Ut/ had largely replaced /wEskIt/ even when I was young - but I
try to revive the older pronunciation  :)

>How about "turquoise"? We're
>probably united in our disgust at /'t3:kw&z/~/'t3:kwA:z/,
Indeed, it's neither English nor French!

>but I'd have
>thought I'm close to being the only /'t3:kwOIs/ sayer.
No, that's how I've always pronounced it - and still do.

My wife, who in any case speaks French fluently, always stresses the final
syllable; but she says it the French way /tuRkwaz/.

Ray.


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A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                   [J.G. Hamann 1760]
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