Re: Nimrina phonology

Herman Miller skrev:
> Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
>> Nice.  Do /K/ ~ /l/ also pattern as a voiceless-voiced pair?
>
> Currently, yes: ríva "yellow" + hlázi "tea" = rívalázi "green tea".
Nice!  Maybe /l7 has an [K\] allophone?

>
>> Are all /h/s from *f?  If not /h/ may alternate with zero in some
>> cases!
>
> I've considered the possibility that not all /h/'s are from an
> earlier /f/; perhaps there was a /x/ : /G/ contrast and the /G/'s
> dropped out.
That was exactly my thought.

> Loss of /G/ could also account for some of the long vowels and
> diphthongs.
Yes.  I didn't think of that, but it's reasonable -- not only
through V-/G/-V > VV, but also through /G/ > /j/ > /i/ after
front vowels and /G/ > /w/ > /u/ after back vowels as in the
history of English.  It is even the case that _ig_ was a
rather frequent inverted spelling for historical /i:/ in late
Old English.  Swedish also has _slöjd_ and _nejd_ from Old
Swedish _sløghdh_ and _næghdh_; Turkish had a similar change
also IIRC (Turkic /b&G/ > Turkish _bey_.

> I have a feeling that if I want a naturalistic phonology I'm going to
> have to go into the history to some extent.
Yes, since historical sound-changes is *the* way morpho-
phonemic alterations and irregularities.  It is also
IMHO Great Fun to develop a family of languages from a
common ancestor -- though it can get incredibly messy.
At least I tend to spawn off new dialects when faced
with alternative possible developments.

>>> Spelling is more or less phonemic, with some complications; for
>>> instance, /z`/ is "r" and /r/ is "rr", so long /z`:/ is written
>>> "zr" to avoid confusion with /r/.
>>
>> Somehow _rz_ for /z`z`/ would seem more right to me, probably
>> because Swedish retroflexes represent /r/+dental, and because _rz_
>> is one of the spellings of Polish /z`/, but perhaps /rz/ is a
>> possible cluster while **/zr/ isn't?
>
> Either spelling would work, but /rz/ I'm thinking would assimilate to
>  /zz/. Of course, progressive assimilation is always a possibility,
> but if assimilation is regressive, I can let "rz" represent an
> original /rz/ which in the current language is pronounced /z:/.
IIRC both /zZ/ and /Zz/ actually become [z\:] in Russian.
Yitzik, are you around?

>
>> BTW did you know that _nimir/nimri/nimrim_ is the word for
>> 'Elf/Elves' in Tolkien's Adûnaic language?
>
> I don't know if I've seen anything about Adûnaic. Was this in one of
> the "History of Middle-Earth" volumes? It's possible I may have seen
> this long ago, but I didn't have anything particular in mind when I
> came up with the name Nimrína.
Yes it can be found in "Sauron Defeated" aka "History of Middle-Earth
  volume 9".  BTW the only thing approaching a grammar by T. of one of
his languages that has been published.

So what kind of people speak Nimrína?  I hope I haven't
influenced your thought in some unwanted direction by this
bit of trivia!

--
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se

    "Maybe" is a strange word.  When mum or dad says it
    it means "yes", but when my big brothers say it it
    means "no"!

                            (Philip Jonsson jr, age 7)

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