Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: E and e (was: A break in the evils of English (or, Sturnan is beautiful))

From:Raymond Brown <ray.brown@...>
Date:Friday, May 3, 2002, 5:43
At 7:32 pm +1000 2/5/02, Tristan wrote:
>On Thu, 2002-05-02 at 15:08, Raymond Brown wrote: > >[Talk of the primary feature.] > >Consider an hypothetical language. It has the following consonants: >[x s t_D p] (and no others). None are allophones for the other; each are >individual sounds. Nor do any have any (important) allophones. What is >the primary distinction between [x] and [p]? POA or TOA? Should they be >phonematicised as /x/ and /k/ or /k/ and /p/? Or as /x/ and /p/?
The phonemic theory does not IMO tell the whole story. Hypothetical languages can easily be constructed to make any theory fall down. I don't reallly understand what sound [t_D] is, it seems odd to have a voiced off-glide from a voicless plosive. To be honest, if I ever came across a language with only four consonants, and those in such odd distribution, I would suspect I didn't have the whole story and want to know more. [snip]
>> >> It varies over here between [bI@], [bi@], [bi:`], [bi:r] (with trilled /r/. > >Is there are contrast between 'beer is' and *'bee riz'?
It depends on the dialect - in some there'd be noticeable difference, but not in all. [snip]
>> >> Like in Erinsborough? :) > >Well, isn't Erinsborough in NSW? ;) (<--- I know it's recorded in >Melbourne)
Is it? All I knew is that it was filmed in Melbourne.
>To be honest, I don't know if they're using normal speech or >not. I've only briefly watched the show (about long enough to walk into >the loungeroom and turn the tv. off). And anyway, I'm no good at hearing >accents on the television.
But 'Neighbours' and 'Home & Away' (never taken to the latter and not seen Neighbours much since nine years or so back) are what we regard as example typical Oz :)) [snip]
> >> similarly 'subsidence' was pronounces with >> stress on first syllable, and the rest unstressed ["sVsIdn=s], but now >> [s@b"saIdn=s] is not uncommon among speakers of all 'classes' - and so I >> could go on. > >Is there supposed to be a /b/ in 'subsidence'?
Yes, sorry, I should've written ["sVbsIdn=s].
>.......([s@b"saIdn=s] sounds >horribly horrible to my ears. I've only heard it ["sAbs@d@ns].)
I can't say I like it over-much, but one hears it often over here. Nice to know that in Oz the older form is still the norm :)
>> ====================== >> XRICTOC ANECTH >> ======================
It's Greek /xris"tos a"nesti/ - it's the greeting Greeks give one another at Eastertide. It means "Christ is risen". The reply is /a"nesti ali"Tos/ "He is truly risen". The / / enclose phonemic values; the Greek I've heard pronounce /e/ and /o/ are rather lower and closer to [E] and [O]. ------------------------------------------------------ At 12:13 pm -0400 2/5/02, John Cowan wrote:
>Tristan scripsit:
[nip]
> >> And this description of US/RP English... what does it do with 'class' >> /clAs/ but 'gas' /g{s/ versus /cl{s/ and /g{s/? Just call it an >> exception? > >U.S. English doesn't have [klA:s].
Nor much of Britain. In most dialects the sound is the same in both words, either /kl{s/ & /g{s/ or /klas/ & /gas/. RP actually had /klAs/ ([a] is not used down here in the south east) and the pronunciations /klAs/ & /g{s/ are a peculiarity of south-east England (and the so-called "RP"). Ray. ====================== XRICTOC ANECTH ======================

Replies

Danny Wier <dawier@...>
Tristan <zsau@...>