Re: French spelling scheme

Wouldn't it be so much simpler not to bother writing French and just
making audio recordings instead? ;)

On Fri, 4 May 2001, Raymond Brown wrote:

> At 12:13 pm +0200 3/5/01, Christophe Grandsire wrote:
> >En réponse à Raymond Brown <ray.brown@...>:
> [snip]
>
> >>
> >> There's no underlying /p/ in "trop" - the sound became utterly silent
> >> centuries ago.
> >
> >I have to disagree here. I, and every French I ever talked to for that matter,
> >pronounce a /p/ of liaison when "trop" is followed by a word beginning with a
> >vowel (except when it begins with the so-called "h aspiré" which merely
> >prevents
> >liaison). Saying /troabO~da~/ instead of /tropabO~da~/ for "trop abondant"
> >sounds extremely clumsy to me.
>
> Oui - je m'en trompe.
>
> I seem to remember learning in the 1950s and it was definitely drummed into
> us at the time that the final -p of _trop_ was silent, having the way of
> the final -p of _coup_ (and I think one or two others where -p followed a
> back, rounded vowel).  But you are right about _trop_.  Apparently the
> final -p was still pronounced in all contexts when the 18th century dawned
> - but hads lost its final /p/, except in liaison, by the end of that
> century.
>
> But final consonants are tricky things.  Apparently one _net_, _os_ and
> _cep_ had lost their final consonants but got them restored in the 19th
> century.
>
> [snip]
> >>
> >
> >Well, for that matter, for most words that do have an ending -s which has
> >to be
> >pronounced (like "pastis" for instance :) ),
>
> I had the impression it was generally pronounced - certainly in "pastis" (a
> great French invention IMHO  :)
>
> >even French speakers uses both
> >possibilities to pronounce it or not, depending on their idiolect. So you
> >wouldn't make that many mistakes. The "normal" pronunciation is silent -s.
> >Pronounced -s is considered exceptional, the words that have it usually are of
> >clear foreign origin (at least to us French :) ).
>
> Like "vis" (screw) which I've always heard as /vis/?
>
> >> And then, of course, we have those lovely words "tous", "six" and "dix"
> >> where the final consonant can be pronounced /s/, /z/ or zero according
> >> to
> >> context  :)
> >>
> >
> >He he... The context is easy for those ones:
>
> I agree - but if one is going to mess around with French orthography, then
> I think one should be aware of it.
>
> Ray.
>
> =========================================
> A mind which thinks at its own expense
> will always interfere with language.
>                    [J.G. Hamann 1760]
> =========================================
>
-------ferko
Ferenc Gy. Valoczy

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