Re: French spelling scheme

At 12:13 pm +0200 3/5/01, Christophe Grandsire wrote:
>En réponse à Raymond Brown <ray.brown@...>:
[snip]

>>
>> There's no underlying /p/ in "trop" - the sound became utterly silent
>> centuries ago.
>
>I have to disagree here. I, and every French I ever talked to for that matter,
>pronounce a /p/ of liaison when "trop" is followed by a word beginning with a
>vowel (except when it begins with the so-called "h aspiré" which merely
>prevents
>liaison). Saying /troabO~da~/ instead of /tropabO~da~/ for "trop abondant"
>sounds extremely clumsy to me.
Oui - je m'en trompe.

I seem to remember learning in the 1950s and it was definitely drummed into
us at the time that the final -p of _trop_ was silent, having the way of
the final -p of _coup_ (and I think one or two others where -p followed a
back, rounded vowel).  But you are right about _trop_.  Apparently the
final -p was still pronounced in all contexts when the 18th century dawned
- but hads lost its final /p/, except in liaison, by the end of that
century.

But final consonants are tricky things.  Apparently one _net_, _os_ and
_cep_ had lost their final consonants but got them restored in the 19th
century.

[snip]
>>
>
>Well, for that matter, for most words that do have an ending -s which has
>to be
>pronounced (like "pastis" for instance :) ),
I had the impression it was generally pronounced - certainly in "pastis" (a
great French invention IMHO  :)

>even French speakers uses both
>possibilities to pronounce it or not, depending on their idiolect. So you
>wouldn't make that many mistakes. The "normal" pronunciation is silent -s.
>Pronounced -s is considered exceptional, the words that have it usually are of
>clear foreign origin (at least to us French :) ).
Like "vis" (screw) which I've always heard as /vis/?

>> And then, of course, we have those lovely words "tous", "six" and "dix"
>> where the final consonant can be pronounced /s/, /z/ or zero according
>> to
>> context  :)
>>
>
>He he... The context is easy for those ones:
I agree - but if one is going to mess around with French orthography, then
I think one should be aware of it.

Ray.

=========================================
A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                   [J.G. Hamann 1760]
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