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Re: Verbal noun, verbnoun, deverbal noun, gerund, infinitive

From:R A Brown <ray@...>
Date:Wednesday, October 24, 2007, 7:49
Eldin Raigmore wrote:
> Can anyone on this list settle the terminological disputes raised on the thread > < http://www.spinnoff.com/zbb/viewtopic.php?t=25263 > > ? > > Is there a difference between the terminology used by linguists writing in one > language, or whose L1 is one language, versus those who write in another > language, or whose L1 is another language?
As far as _deverbal noun_ and _verbal noun_ are concerned, there should not be. IMO only carelessness in use. A _deverbal noun_ is a *noun* derived "de verbo", i.e. from a verb, e.g. realization <-- realize. Such as noun is a 100% noun with no verbal functions. A _verbal noun_, on the other hand, is any form of a verb which can serve as the head of a noun phrase; _typically_ these are infinitives & gerunds (but see below), e.g. (a) Lisa's _failing_ her exams upset her parents. Here _failing_ takes a direct object 'her exams' but the subject has a possessive form "Lisa's", thus treating _failing_ as a noun. (b) It is forbidden _to shoot_ pheasants out of season. _to shoot_ is the complement of "it is forbidden" (and in a language with adjectival agreement, 'forbidden' would agree with 'to shoot') but "to shoot" has a direct object. The terms 'infinitive' and 'gerund', however, are rather more language specific - tho IMO this should not be so much a question of a speaker's L1 as of the language one is speaking about. Although infinitives are common, not all languages have them, nor do they behave exactly the same in all languages. The term 'gerund' is even more language specific. Originally it referred to the neuter of the Latin gerundive, used as a noun. In English it is used to denote the -ing form when used as a verbal noun (see example above). IIRC I have seen the term used for a verbal adverb in the Slav languages. IME, if one uses the term 'gerund' one does need to define its meaning in the grammar of the language in question. As for _verbnoun_, I have met this *only* with reference to the modern Insular Celtic languages. I guess the term was coined because the verbal noun (for that is what it is) does not quite like an English infinitive nor an English gerund - i.e. to distinguish its function from the verbal nouns of English. Whether this was, from a linguistic point of view, a good thing to do or not, is another matter. But IMO to use the term 'verbnoun' for a feature in some other language other than the Insular Celtic languages one should show good reason.
> If you're through addressing the various terminological disagreements, you > might also take a stab at answering the other questions raised.
Not a the moment, thanks :) -- Ray ================================== http://www.carolandray.plus.com ================================== Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitudinem.

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Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>