Re: Llirine: introduction and phonology

On Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 10:15:53PM +0100, Christian Thalmann wrote:
> --- In conlang@y..., David Starner <starner@O...> wrote:
>
> > the Sherall (a species of genetically engineered humans)
> > ...
> > they have limited lip movement and a more constant airflow than
> > humans
>
> Why would anyone genetically downgrade humans?  Especially when the
> alterations deprive them of the ability to kiss.  The Sherall sound like
> a race straight out of an Obrenje horror movie.  =)
Sherall, the world they were designed for, has various air pollutants.
One large part of the solution was augmenting nasal structures with
filters, which called for more tightly controlling airflow through the
mouth. (Actually, I decided on the sound limitations first, and then
tried to come up with an explanation.)

> Since you're new on the list (welcome, by the way ;-):  Obrenaja, my
> conculture, regards  romance as an art form and distinguishes at least 8
> types of kissing.  ;-)
Do you have a webpage on them, or should I search some list archives
somewhere?

The Sherall, particularly the Llirines, go after romance very
energetically, but with little to no skill. I don't know if the Obrenaja
would appreciate that or not.

> Anyway, what advantageous alterations do they have?
Most of their alterations were towards adapting them to Sherall. They
have superior night vision (better than pretty much any Earth creature),
but at the cost of their day vision. They have vaguely catlike ears,
that show body language, and can close completely. They are more
intellegent than humans; the meddleing with that made them a lot less
social, but increased their tendency to pair up with one another.

> Cool, a non-standard vowel system.  /a e i o u/ does become boring after
> a while (see Star Trek languages...), though I have to admit Obrenje has
> only those five vowels as well (albeit with 2-3 tense/lax allophonic
> variations each).
I wanted it to be small, and I considered that the physiology might mess
with the vowel system. One of these days I'm going to have to create a
language with one vowel. Vowels are one of the annoying parts of
learning German - it may have something to with my native language being
English, with its truely bizzare vowel orthography.

> > Consonants
> > ...
> >  K  -   ll  - belted l <026C>
>
> Why not write that as l^ for the sake of consistency?
Because ll is more traditional, and probably easier to recognize for the
readers of the list. (Anything I do personally uses the full
orthography.) I'll probably change the n^ to ng (since I don't have a g)
for the same reason.

> > Any comments?
>
> How about some grammar tidbits?  =)
Um, yeah. I'm still trying to digest the list's comments on the
phonology - give me some time to work on. (Considering it's getting
close to finals time, I really shouldn't be spending that much time
working on it.)

Also, I wouldn't expect much from it. I speak only English fluently,
and have studied a little Esperanto and German. At best, the grammatical
structure will be recognizable Indo-European.

***

> Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 13:58:43 -0800
> From: Jesse Bangs <jaspax@...>
> Well, if they can't articulate plosives, then they really shouldn't be
> able to pronounce nasals, either.  Contrary to what Nik said, a nasal is
> basically a plosive with the velum down--the oral articulations are
> identical.  However, there's an alternate I thought of.  Perhaps the
> problem is that their velums are *always* down--they can't close them!
I appreciate the live testing, but if I understand it right, a velum
always being down would increase mixing of the oral airstream and nasal
airstream. I'm tending towards some sort of split airchannels, and hand
waving the exact details.

> You said they couldn't pronounce labial sounds.  Even if they can't do [p
> b m f v], could they possibly do [w]?
No, probably not. Thanks.

> They have a final click?  That is extremely odd, and I'm 99% sure that no
> real language has it.
Why? I have no problem pronouncing it.

--
David Starner - starner@okstate.edu, ICQ #61271672
Pointless website: http://dvdeug.dhis.org
Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and
persuade themselves that they have a better idea. -- John Ciardi