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Re: Simafira: phonetics

From:Thomas R. Wier <artabanos@...>
Date:Wednesday, September 5, 2001, 2:11
Jesse Bangs wrote:

> > > Missing from what? If the sounds you mentioned are the only ones not > in > > > your conlang then that means you must have a really awful consonantal > > > system, full of retroflex nasal clicks and voiced uvular ejectives > and > > > other such monsters. <<shudder>> > > > > Are there even such things as voiced uvular ejectives? Voiced > ejectives > > are, IIRC, very very rare (Mam has one, I think) -- though voiced > > implosives are not. > > That actually was my point.
Yeah, I know. I was responding in affirmation of your point. :)
> I don't think voiced ejectives exist, and I'm pretty sure that they're > physically impossible.
FWIW, England, in her _A Grammar of Mam, a Mayan Language_ writes (p. 26): "The glottalized occlusives are unit phonemes which contrast with plain occlusives plus glottal stop. Phonetically, /tz' ch' tx' ky' k'/ are ejectives, with glottal closure occuring simultaneously or preceding the onset of oral closure. /b' q'/ are implosives. /t'/ varies between ejective and implosive, depending on the speaker. The imploded bilabial /b'/ is always voiced in initial or medial position, but is devoiced finally; /t'/ is voiced initially and medially, and devoiced finally; /q'/ is partially voiced initially and medially, and also devoiced finally." So, presumably, if this account is accurate -- and I know of no reason to think that it isn't other than typological grounds -- there are speakers who have voiced ejectives as allophones of /t'/.
> In any case, I was being sarcastic and pointing out that if you > only exclude a few phonemes, you imply that what remains is everything > else that's even conceivable.
Certainly -- I agree. =================================== Thomas Wier | AIM: trwier "Aspidi men Saiôn tis agalletai, hên para thamnôi entos amômêton kallipon ouk ethelôn; autos d' exephugon thanatou telos: aspis ekeinê erretô; exautês ktêsomai ou kakiô" - Arkhilokhos