Re: Simafira: phonetics

Jesse Bangs wrote:

> > > Missing from what?  If the sounds you mentioned are the only ones not
> in
> > > your conlang then that means you must have a really awful consonantal
> > > system, full of retroflex nasal clicks and voiced uvular ejectives
> and
> > > other such monsters.  <<shudder>>
> >
> > Are there even such things as voiced uvular ejectives?  Voiced
> ejectives
> > are, IIRC, very very rare (Mam has one, I think) -- though voiced
> > implosives are not.
>
> That actually was my point.
Yeah, I know.  I was responding in affirmation of your point. :)

> I don't think voiced ejectives exist, and I'm pretty sure that they're
> physically impossible.
FWIW, England, in her _A Grammar of Mam, a Mayan Language_
writes (p. 26):

"The glottalized occlusives are unit phonemes which contrast with
plain occlusives plus glottal stop.  Phonetically, /tz' ch' tx' ky' k'/ are
ejectives, with glottal closure occuring simultaneously or preceding
the onset of oral closure.  /b' q'/ are implosives.  /t'/ varies between
ejective and implosive, depending on the speaker.  The imploded
bilabial /b'/ is always voiced in initial or medial position, but is devoiced
finally; /t'/ is voiced initially and medially, and devoiced finally; /q'/ is
partially voiced initially and medially, and also devoiced finally."

So, presumably, if this account is accurate -- and I know of no reason to
think that it isn't other than typological grounds -- there are speakers who
have voiced ejectives as allophones of /t'/.

>  In any case, I was being sarcastic and pointing out that if you
> only exclude a few phonemes, you imply that what remains is everything
> else that's even conceivable.
Certainly -- I agree.

===================================
Thomas Wier | AIM: trwier

"Aspidi men Saiôn tis agalletai, hên para thamnôi
  entos amômêton kallipon ouk ethelôn;
autos d' exephugon thanatou telos: aspis ekeinê
  erretô; exautês ktêsomai ou kakiô" - Arkhilokhos