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Re: Name mangling (Was: Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!)

From:Stephen Mulraney <ataltanie@...>
Date:Sunday, March 13, 2005, 21:05
Philip Newton wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 15:14:55 +0000, Stephen Mulraney > <ataltanie@...> wrote: > >>Philip Newton wrote: >> >> >>>off the top of my head, I can't think >>>of any other language that has [Ew], though perhaps Belarusian or >>>Polish does? >> >>Not Polish. > > > I guess that Russian пел (he sang?)
My Russian is rapidly decaying as knowledge of Polish takes over (very confusing sometimes, especially when I start mixing languages talking to my girlfriend's family...), but I guess that's "he was singing" (imperfect). > might be peł in Polish, and a
> quick Google did turn this word up a few times... would that not be > [pEw]?
Of course, you're right about the combination <eł>. Don't know what I was thinking... :). "He sang" is actually <śpiewał> [s\p_jEvaw], though. I can't find any obvious relation to <пел> in the dictionary; though it is a bit to short to make the search easy. An example of <eW> might be <krzyszeł> [kSi\SEw] "he was shouting" (surely that must be something like the Platonic ideal of a Polish word? All it needs is a nasal..). Going further along the path of Polish [Ew]-like diphthongs that I was blinded to by the orthography earlier, there's also (how did I miss all of this?!) the nasals. I'll explain in a bit more detail for the benefit of others who aren't familiar with it. Polish has two "nasal" phonemes, nasal-e and nasal-o, written somewhat confusingly as e-hook <ę> and a-hook <ą>. The letters seem to be called "e ogonek" and "a ogonek", where "ogonek" means "little tail", but Poles don't usually use those names, instead just pronouncing their sound. The funny thing is that these letters never actually represent the [E~] and [O~] that you'd expect them to. First of all, before stops & affricates, they're pronounced as oral vowel + homorganic nasal; so that <wstęp> "way in" is [fstEmp], and <krąg> "circle" is [krOnk] (NB: consonants assimilate in voicedness to those following; and final consonants are voiceless). Also, a word-final <ę> is pronounced like plain [E} (except in very "correct" speech), and before <ł> they're both pronounced plain, as [E] and [O]. However, it's only before fricatives that they sound actually nasalised (also word-finally, for <ą>), and in these cases they're actually pronounced as [Ew~] and [Ow~], by which I'm trying to indicate: oral vowel + nasalised [w]. I've heard this called an "asynchronous nasal", as opposed to the synchronous nasals of French etc (i.e. [E~], [O~]). So, Polish has not only [Ew] in copious quantities, but also a nasalised form! Oops! s. --


Stephen Mulraney <ataltanie@...>