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YAEPT: apples and oranges (was Re: 'noun' and 'adjective' (fuit: To What Extent is Standard Finnish a Conlang?))

From:Paul Bennett <paul-bennett@...>
Date:Friday, March 3, 2006, 20:14
*Reply-To warning. My ISP webmail may not be brain-damaged any more, but I can't guarantee it*

On Fri, Mar 3, 2006 at  1:35 PM, Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:

> Mark J. Reed skrev: > > >> I once read an Anglophone phonetician pointing out > >>the difference in intonation between the compound _orange juice_ meaning > >>"juice made of oranges" and the adjective + noun phrase _orange juice_ > >>meaning "any juice of orange color": the compound has stress only on > >>_orange_ while the phrase has stress on both _orange_ and _juice_. > >>By that criterion _apple pie_ is a compound! > > > > > > ? Not the way I say it; "apple pie" has equal stress on both words. > > When I say it with the stress only on "apple", the result sounds like > > someone speaking with a marked foreign accent. > > Being tone deaf I might well have gotten the details of the > stress wrong, but you have to agree that _apple pie_ has the > same stress pattern as the "juice made of oranges" > version of _orange juice_, whichever the actual realization > is, don't you (and Ray)?
As for this transatlantic native speaker, I'd say that the /'Or\ndZu:s/ pronunciation is distinctly Leftpondian, and I'd expect /'Qr\i\ndZ 'dZu:s/ in the UK, much like /'r\Abnh@d/ vs /'r\QbIn 'hUd/, and AFAICT /'&pl=paj/ vs /'ap@l 'pAj/, though I've heard it as both a compound and a phrase in this part of the USA, along with cherry, pecan, pumpkin and sweet potato variants. Actually, now I roll the various pies around in my head, I think the compounded versions are a little more common around here. Paul