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Re: Russian-based pidgins (was: Zelandish)

From:Isaac A. Penzev <isaacp@...>
Date:Sunday, September 29, 2002, 18:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pavel Iosad" <pavel_iosad@...>
To: <CONLANG@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Russian-based pidgins (was: Zelandish)

> Hello, > > > > Oh! You know about Russo-norsk and Sino-Russian?! That's > > great! I'm amazed! Unfortunately there are very few materials > > on these issues. Do you have / know-where-to-find any in the Web? > > > > > Unfortunately not. I have seen references to Russo-norsk in > > a couple of > > books in the past. I don't think I encounter Sino-Russian > > before I read > > Pidgins and Creoles by Ian Holm (I think). There was a little > > information about both pidgins but I don't think it had anything
> > surzhik. > > And rightly so. The surzhik is nowhere near being a pidgin. It is
> truly a mixture of Russian and Ukrainian, forming a bit of a > transitional zone between the two languages. It has a phonoogy
> from both R and Ukr: thus it has [G] instead of R [g] (as do most > Russian proper dialects of the south) and Ukr voiced [h] (forgot the > SAMPA). It has however the Ukrainian [w] instead of > preconsonantal/auslaut [v]. It has no palatalized sibilants and > affricates (Russian has only [tS_j], and Ukr has a whole load of
> The prosodic patterns are closer to Ukrainian. In morphology, mosr > dialects are closer to Russian than to Ukrainian (thus, no simple
> tense, and most endings usually Russian - like _-ov_ and not _-iv_
> 2nd decl. gen. pl - but of course pronounced [ow]!). The lexis is
> normal for that region - it shares a lot with Ukrainian and southern > Russian dialects, and thus more like Ukrainian than standard
> > But it has a full-fledged morphology, and the source of its lexis is
> one of the languages, but both. > > Pavel
Thank you, Pavel! You brief description of Surzhik is marvellous! Where did you get the data? And voiced [h] is [h\] IIRC. Yitzik ~~~~~~~~~~~~~