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USAGE: Phonematisation of German (was Re: How to Make Chicken Cacciatore)

From:Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
Date:Wednesday, July 21, 2004, 5:09
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 23:03:18 +0200, Andreas Johansson <andjo@...> wrote:
> Quoting Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>: > > > "möchte" has /9/, not /2/ - perhaps "mögen" and "Mücken" is a closer > > pair to exemplify /2/ vs. /Y/ in the standard language. > > We would seem to be using different phonematization schemes -
Quite possibly. Phonemic transcription, as opposed to phonetic, is always language-specific. I never learned a specific one for German so I use an ad-hoc notation. (This kind of thing used to garner me frequent disagreements on sci.lang, for example, where Peter T. Daniels uses the Trager-Smith(sp?) scheme for notating English phonemes rather than my system based on IPA.)
> I'd transcribe the > vowels of _möchte_ and _mögen_ as /2/ and /2:/, considering length to be the > phonemic difference.
I suppose that would work. I suppose we both agree that they're different phonemes? So we both use different symbols, and which symbols we use is essentially (almost) arbitrary. I pronounce those phonemes as [9] and [2:], so I phonematicise them as /9/ and /2/, ignoring length marking since /2/ is always long [2:], but /2/ = [9] and /2:/ = [2:] would also be valid. *shrugs* Just as in English, I write /hIt/ vs /hit/ for the distinction "hit" vs "heat"; PTD would write (IITC) /hit/ vs. /hiyt/. (Again, I don't write /i:/ though I pronounce [i:].) The only case where I use : in phonemic transcription of German is for /a:/ which contrasts with /a/ (e.g. "Sack" /zak/ vs. "sag'!" /za:k/).
> /Y/ (which I'd > normally would rather write as /y/)
Again, an arbitrary choice. Cheers, -- Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>