Re: Ergative and other questions

Mark J. Reed/John Cowan wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 02:25:03PM -0500, John Cowan wrote:
> > > So the -ee suffix in English is ergative.
I disagree. The exs. show it is absolutive--

 >Mike employs Susie.       ->    Susie is an employee.
        Mike has inducted Susie.  ->    Susie is an inductee.
        Mike has appointed Susie. ->    Susie is an appointee.

Susie is the DO.
If you paraphrase, you end up with a passive: Susie is employed etc. by
Mike; ergo, Susie is a patient

       > Susie has retired.      ->      Susie is a retiree.
        Susie has escaped.      ->      Susie is an escapee.
        Susie is standing.      ->      Susie is a standee.

Here again, Susie is a patient (or at least subj. of an intr. verb.)

> >
> > Exceptions: divorcee, fiancee, negligee (all straight French
borrowings.....

despite the variant /-ej/ pronunciation, divorcee and fiancee at least are
patients (She has been divorced by.., she has been affianced by....  (But as
for negligee and bargee [unknown to me], deponent saith not.)

BTW, does the -ee /-ij/ suffix also derive from French? I'd suspect so. It
seems to occur mainly with Fr/Latinate forms.

> > refugee (no underlying verb,
> > but if there were one it would be accusative), >
> And then there's "attendee", which is odd because "attend" is transitive.
>
Yes, these are odd. But the underlyng verbs can be optionally intransitive.
If "flee" underlies refugee, it is an odd trans. verb.  For while "Frank
fled Fallujah" is OK, I submit there's a deleted "from"-- "fled" does not
affect Fallujah, as "...kicked Percy.." affects Percy. Of course, "Frank
fled" is OK, and clearly intrans.
Note: Frank fled --> Frank is a refugee
    Frank fled Fallujah --> he is a refugee _from_ Fallujah.

If the underlying verb is a compound phrase like "seek refuge", then I
suggest the phrase is intrisically an intrans. concept. Again, a paraphrase:
John is one who has sought refuge.

ObConlang!! In Kash, "flee/ run away" is definitely intrans. and would need
"from" to express "[person] fled X...."  There might also well be a
monomorphemic intr. verb meaning "seek refuge".  "Attend" would remain a
problem  OOh me brain hurts.

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