Re: (Offlist) Re: ASCII IPA

Javier wrote:


>>>But I prefer to write /i:/ rather than /iy/, assuming the length
>>>is phonemic [which it isn't in English
>
>It IS. The difference between /i:/-/I/ is at the
>same time one of length and one of tenseness, in
>the same way as the difference between /p/-/b/ is
>a double opposition of voicing and aspiration.
As Adrian pointed out, aspiration is not relevant _phonemically_ in Engl,
since it is entirely predictable.

Re the vowels: you are conflating the two (mainly British) systems.
System 1 uses /i:/ vs. /i/ where the colon, which in IPA indeed marks
length, here is used symbolically, I think,  to indicate the tenseness.
After all, the vowel of 'beet, beat' is markedly shorter phonetically than
that of  'bead, bean, be', yet all would be written phonemically with /i:/.
Likewise there is a length difference between "bit" and "bid, bin", yet all
are phonemically /i/.

System 2 uses IPA vowel symbols with their accepted values, so /i/ for the
tense V, /"small cap i"/ for the lax ( i and I in X-SAMPA).  One simply has
to be told that /e/ and /o/ are realized as diphthongs (and probably that
/i/ and /u/ have slight [j] and [w] offglides).

Trager-Smith (mostly US usage) uses homorganic semivowel offglides (y, w)
for the front and back tense vowels, so /iy, ey, uw, ow/ vs lax /i e u o/.
One could debate whether /iy, uw/ are actually realized with an offglide
(/ey, ow/ certainly are), though I think it can be shown instrumentally--
and I'm sure you've heard Americans mangling Spanish such that "mí" is
pronounced as Engl. "me", "su" as Engl. "sue", and surely they do not sound
identical. ¿No?

(snips)
>RP ENGLISH VOWELS:
>
>
>b) Stressed
>
>-Monophthongs
>
>(long/tense)
>
>/i:/ bEAt
>/3:/ bIRd-- the status of this vowel is debatable, as P.Newton and I were
discussing.  It could be analyzed phonemically as a stressed schwa.

>/A:/ bARt  I could be mistaken, but I suspect there are no RP words with
this vowel that do not have an "r" in their written form.  US examples for
/a/ [A] include cot, pot, lot, bother etc., which have /O/ in RP.
>/O:/ bOARd  ditto, though /O/ may occur in "bawd. laud, cough" and past
tense forms like "pawed"; I am not sure.
>/u:/ bOOt
>
>(@-final)
>
>/I@/ pEER
>/E@/ pEAR
>/U@/ pOOR
I don't know how non-rhotic phonemics handles these.  If you use just the
schwa symbol, then there has to be a realization rule that "@ is pronounced
@r if a vowel follows"-- that works 99% of the time, but also leads to
hypercorrections like "idear" and "Cuber" as our late Pres. JFK used to say.
As one who grew up with rhotic speech, I can tell you that such
pronunciations were considered utterly ignorant by our teachers.
>
>(U-final)
>
>/@U/ nO-- US is much closer to [o], TS /ow/ [oU]
>/AU/ nOW
>
>-Triphthongs
>
>/aI@/ fIRE
>/AU@/ OUR
>
>Rhotic dialects turn the scheme of stressed long/tense
>monophthongs into:
>/A:/ pALm-- some of us still pronounce the /l/...

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