Re: CHAT: Vexillology and games (was: Re: Flag of England)

At 15:10 20/06/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Roger Mills wrote:
>
>[speaking of who wants to be a millionaire
>
>>         It would be interesting to see a European version, since the level
>> of general education is supposed to be a bit higher there.  It is dismaying
>> and depressing to witness the abysmal performance of some of the
contestants
>> in the US.
>
>Well, that's the thing.  In America, we have a universal education system,
where
>everyone (within geographical restrictions based on state and school
district guidelines)
>takes approximately the same curriculum, whatever their ability level
might be.
>In most countries in Europe, at some age,  usually around 10 or 12,
>you take a test to see if you can get into the college-bound Gymnasium
(that's
>the German name; other countries have different names for it).  Comparisons
>between the US and many European education systems  have in the past been
>between your average American Highschool (TM) and the Gymnasien -- which
>is rather unfair.  A more proper comparison is between US honors students or
>US magnate schools;  one study two years ago showed no statistical difference
>when that was taken into account.  So, American highschools are
egalitarian but
>don't prepare those with less skill level for technical professions which
might suit
>them better;  European schools are elitist, effectively reenforcing class
distinctions
>preexistent in society, but do prepare all according to their ability in
*something*.
>
Well, I don't know for other European countries, but in France it doesn't
work like that. We don't have an exam at 12 but at 15-16 (so virtually
everyone goes to Junior High School) and this exam is nearly meaningless,
as more than 75% of the population goes to High School and takes the
Baccalaureate at 18 (there are different kinds of Baccalaureate, some more
valued than others, but it's more a matter of perception by the people than
of real value). Only after that the French school system becomes elitist,
mostly with the difference between Technical Schools, Universities and
"Grandes Ecoles" (by ascending order of importance). I'm myself in a
"Grande Ecole" so I know very well this system. I'm probably one of the
rare people here who doesn't come from a family where people already made
long studies (my father's a technician and my mother a saleswoman, most
people I know here have doctors, lawyers, etc... as parents).

I find the French system very elitist and favouring long studies, but at
least it stays quite egalitarian until 16 (too egalitarian, it refuses to
recognize that people are different in their ways of working they want to
make everyone the same).

>As such, if you take a random person from America and one from Europe, I
don't
>think you're going to find it substantially easier or harder to find
someone able to
>answer the question:  neither will necessarily be prepared for that subject.
>
>>  Never mind the most elementary facts about world history, geography, art
>> etc. They _do_ know 1) TV shows of the last 30 years 2) pop music of the
>> same period 3) (men only) sports.  I confess, those categories would do me
>> in quickly.
>
At least until 16 the only choice we have in our studies is how many
languages we'll take, and which ones (depending on the school). The rest is
mandatory for everyone (especially Geography and History, my least favoured
subjects. I would be lost in a geographic question, but I'm still able to
answer most historical questions. Science and language questions are often
too easy for me :)) ).

>I remember one question which went something like:  "The Carthaginian general
>Hannibal  crossed the Alps with:  (a) horses (b) elephants (c) cattle (d)
llamas."
>I was stunned, and insulted, but that was *before* the contestant tried to
answer "(d)".
>
I hope they didn't write it "lamas" :) (poor monks...) I hope it was a
question for $50 only. In the Dutch version questions are generally quite
easy until fl.1000.


                                                Christophe Grandsire
                                                |Sela Jemufan Atlinan C.G.

"Reality is just another point of view."

homepage : http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr
(ou : http://www.bde.espci.fr/homepages/Christophe.Grandsire/index.html)