Re: SURVEY: Idiomatic Expressions In Your ConLang Or ConCulture

--- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Roger Mills <rfmilly@M...> wrote:
>
> Taliesin wrote:
>
> > * R A Brown said on 2005-11-18 08:38:35 +0100
> >> You are, of course, correct. I guess we should amend Trask thus:
> >> "An expression consisting of two or more morphemes whose meaning
> >> cannot be simply predicted from the meanings of its constituent
> >> parts."
> >
> > I don't think this is wise. In English it might be so that a
> > compound ceases to be a compound as soon as it needs its own
> > entry in a dictionary, but this is not necessarily the case in
> > other languages.
>
> I'm getting the impression there is a lot of overlap between
> compounds (transparent, semi-transparent, or totally obscure),
> metaphors, and outright idioms (like 'pulling someone's leg', 'kick
> the bucket').
Speaking of compounds --

I should inject at this point in the discussion, Panini's
classification of compounds into amredita, bahuvrihi, dvandva,
karmadharaya, and tatpurusha.

amredita -- iterative -- day-to-day, one-for-one, house-by-house

bahuvrihi -- characteristic -- lacewing, pickpocket, flatfoot

dvandva -- described by both elements -- fighter-bomber, blue-green,
freeze-dry

karmadharaya -- one element describes the other element, but the
compound denotes something yet more specialized -- blackbird,
blackboard, whitewash, gentleman

tatpurusha -- one element modifies the other element determinatively,
completely specifying the meaning of the compound -- footstool,
doghouse, wallpaper, overripe, undermine, takeout, lawsuit, armchair,
raincoat

http://www.answers.com/topic/english-compound
does a better job for English, of course, since Panini was working on
Sanskrit and didn't know English.

> Indonesian has lots of phrasal compounds that need special
> definition (usually under both terms), e.g. _rumah sakit_
> (house+sick) 'hospital' (Kash compounds house+health for this, a
> nicer combination I think). Literally it could mean 'a sick house'
> (or building)-- a concept so far limited to our "advanced" Western
> world I hope.
German's "Krankhaus" meaning "hospital" comes from "sick"+"house",
doesn't it?
I know German's Western, but I don't know how they say a "sick"
building.

--- I'm getting kicked out, so I have to go now.  Sorry.

Tom H.C. in MI


> Come to think of it, I suspect Kash has more than its share of such
> semi-transparent or obscure compounds and forms-- e.g. a lot of the
> accidental verbs with prefix caka-, like caka/ñoni 'to nitpick,
quibble'
> (ñoni 'test, try'). Or ca/kanjik 'gluttonous; s.o. who'll eat
anything (fig.
> gullible)' (hanjik 'bite of food, mouthful'). And related
ca/kacip 'picky
> about one's food; (fig.) fastidious', vele ('give') hacip 'to give
a small
> bribe/payoff' (hacip 'a little bite/nibble of food') and many more.
And you
> could make nonce-forms like caka/fanu 'obsessed with the number 8'
(fanu
> '8').
>
> >
> > Take for instance the word/compound "redcap" (a mythological
creature
> > IIRC).
>
> Mythological?? Eh? Nowadays it might as well be....;-)) Back in the
days
> when the US had a functional railway system, a redcap was a porter
in the
> station. They did wear official caps, though I don't remember if
they were
> red (it was a very long time ago), but at some point I suppose they
did.
> Now we have _skycaps_ at airports; not too long ago they actually
carried
> your baggage in; now they just check you in at the curb and throw
your bag
> onto a cart or conveyer belt. They may or may not wear a cap.......
>

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