Re: CHAT: coincidence

On Thu, 18 May 2006 Roger Mills wrote:
>
> Nik Taylor wrote:
> > _lika_ (l(a)- is a gender prefix, so _ika_ is the root) is "fish" in
> > Kasshian.  I later learned that many Polynesian languages have _ika_ for
> > "fish" (presumably, then, Proto-Polynesian must've had _ika_ for fish).
> >   Japanese also uses _ika_ for "squid".
> >
> I seem to recall hearing that Japanese "chumi" (my impressionistic
> rendering) means 'ink' or the ink-block used in writing with a brush. Is
> that correct? If so, consider Malay/Indonesian [tSumi] 'squid'
> (at least one source of ink)...
Malay uses 'sotong' for squid & cuttle-fish.  I don't recall
ever hearing "cumi" in its place, nor does it appear in my
pocket dictionary.  Octopus is given there as:
'[ikan] kurita, gurita, loyak, doyak'
('loyak' is also "squishy" or "overboiled").  I've heard both
'ikan kurita' and 'loyak'.


> (Polyn. ika = Ml/In. ikan 'fish', one of the few words (like mata 'eye')
> that is recognizable--with only minor sound changes--in almost every MP
> language.)
Yep.  But not all!

Iban (*): ikan, mata
Kadazan (**): sada, mato

(*) aka 'Sea Dayak'.  See:
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=iba
Classification: Austronesian, Malayo-Polynesian,
Malayic, Malayic-Dayak, Ibanic.

(**) Ethnologue calls this 'Kadazan, Coastal' and gives
its classification as: Austronesian, Malayo-Polynesian,
Northwest, Sabahan, Dusunic, Dusun, Central.  See:
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=dtp

Perhaps 'ika[n]' is restricted to Malayic?

-----------------------

ObConLang: I've noticed a slight tendency on occasion to
avoid including word forms, however logically they might
be expected, that occur in any other known language.
Silly, or what?

This exactly parallels a phenomenon that occurred in early
20th Century "serious" eg symphonic and chamber music,
and especially among the serialists, who elevated it to a
principle: "octave avoidance".  Since the serialists were
determined, for whatever ideological reason (they varied),
to treat every one of the twelve semitones available in the
octave equally, sometimes without regard to consonance
or dissonance, the occurrence of an octave was seen as an
immediate sign that the composer was ideologically unchaste
... !  Even in other musical idioms, such as jazz, there was
often a feeling that the old forms, with moderate dissonance
being faithfully and inevitably resolved into consonance,
were a little boring and safe, and musicians would make new
harmonic colours by scrupulously avoiding exact consonances
at every turn.  Well, of course, with only 12 semitones to the
octave, these new resources were soon exhausted (though
our musical language has definitely been enriched by these
experiments).  Nowadays, one can find some avant-garde
composers merrily creating a new, microtonal tuning system
for every new piece!  (I do admit to being one such scientist.)

Question:  In coining vocabulary for your conlangs, do you
A)  avoid using word-forms you know from other languages;
B)  deliberately reuse such word-forms; or
C)  let the chips fall where they may?

Regards,
Yahya


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